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我本来可以把它发布到一个知识产权论坛,但我认为Xilinx社区中最优秀,最聪明的(以及最快速的梳妆台)都在斯巴达论坛中徘徊......
我的第一个自筹资金产品基于S6 LX16部件,配备Atmel SPI闪存。 我想保护我的设计(以及我未来的生计)免受克隆。 我手边的CES部件不支持DNA,但Atmel SPI闪存部件确实有一个独特的32位序列号。 这是我到目前为止设计的方案: 一阶保护是简单地将唯一的序列号复制到SPI闪存中的可读位置,一次只能在首次上电时复制一次。 对于后续的“启动”,FPGA会读取并比较SPI序列号和SPI序列号的副本。 复制的序列号可以与其他SPI内容一起克隆,但无法克隆本机序列号。 这个方案有什么问题? 我的目标是让克隆变得足够困难,以阻止一个淘汰艺术家。 我没有让设计“安全”远离国家安全局或东欧黑客群体的妄想,我太小了,不能为那些人炒鱼。 作为我的设计师的一个注释,我确实在论坛和各种Xilinx白皮书上搜索了这个主题。 实施“终极解决方案”的两个最大障碍是缺少板载DNA,缺少板载闪存(S3AN)。 提前感谢您的建议! - 鲍勃埃尔金德 签名:新手的自述文件在这里:http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369总结:1。 阅读手册或用户指南。 你读过手册了吗? 你能找到手册吗?2。 搜索论坛(并搜索网页)以寻找类似的主题。 不要在多个论坛上发布相同的问题。 不要在别人的主题上发布新主题或问题,开始新的主题!5。 学生:复制代码与学习设计不同.6“它不起作用”不是一个可以回答的问题。 提供有用的详细信息(请与网页,数据表链接).7。 您的代码中的评论不需要支付额外费用。 我没有支付论坛帖子的费用。 如果我写一篇好文章,那么我一无所获。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 I could have posted this to an IP forum, but I think the best and the brightest (as well as the snappiest dressers) of the Xilinx community all hang out here in the Spartan forum... My first self-funded product is based on S6 LX16 parts, with Atmel SPI flash for config. I would like to protect my design (and my future livelihood) from cloning. The CES parts I have on hand do not support DNA, but the Atmel SPI flash parts do have a unique 32bit serial number. Here's the scheme I've devised so far: First order protection is to simply copy the unique serial number to a readable location in the SPI flash, once and only once at first power-up. For subsequent 'boots', the FPGA reads and compares the SPI serial number and the copy of the SPI serial number. The copied serial number can be cloned along with the rest of the SPI contents, but the native serial number cannot be cloned. What can go wrong with this scheme? My goal is to make cloning just difficult enough to deter a knock-off artist. I don't have delusions of keeping the design 'safe' from the NSA or the East Europe hacker crowd, I'm too small a fish to fry for those folks. As a note to my fellow designers, I have indeed searched the forums and the various Xilinx white papers on the subject. The two biggest impediments to implementing the "ultimate solution" are lack of onboard DNA, and lack of onboard flash (a la S3AN). Thanks for your suggestions, in advance! -- Bob Elkind SIGNATURE: README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369 Summary: 1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual? 2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics. 3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums. 4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread! 5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design. 6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please). 7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code. 8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing. |
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Spartan-6 LX16设备正在生产中,其DNA编程。
为什么不直接更换当前电路板上的部件进行开发? ------您是否尝试在Google中输入问题? 如果没有,你应该在发布之前。太多结果? 尝试添加网站:www.xilinx.com 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 The Spartan-6 LX16 devices are in production with the DNA programmed. Why not just replace the part on your current board for your development? ------Have you tried typing your question into Google? If not you should before posting. Too many results? Try adding site:www.xilinx.com |
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Spartan-6 LX16设备正在生产中,其DNA编程。
为什么不直接更换当前电路板上的部件 发展? 我已经购买并支付了CES部件。 数以百计。 - 鲍勃 签名:新手的自述文件在这里:http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369总结:1。 阅读手册或用户指南。 你读过手册了吗? 你能找到手册吗?2。 搜索论坛(并搜索网页)以寻找类似的主题。 不要在多个论坛上发布相同的问题。 不要在别人的主题上发布新主题或问题,开始新的主题!5。 学生:复制代码与学习设计不同.6“它不起作用”不是一个可以回答的问题。 提供有用的详细信息(请与网页,数据表链接).7。 您的代码中的评论不需要支付额外费用。 我没有支付论坛帖子的费用。 如果我写一篇好文章,那么我一无所获。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 The Spartan-6 LX16 devices are in production with the DNA programmed. Why not just replace the part on your current board for your development?I've already bought and paid for the CES parts. Hundreds of them. - Bob SIGNATURE: README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369 Summary: 1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual? 2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics. 3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums. 4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread! 5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design. 6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please). 7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code. 8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing. |
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我没有意识到你有这么多部分。
我对你的方法的关注是,一个合理的黑客会注意到设备有权读取序列号,然后另一个访问权来读取具有相同数字的另一部分内存。 从这两个项目中,它很容易打破。 将数字通过一些加扰/散列/加密以及超过32位的数据读取可能是一个合理的步骤,代价是FPGA所需的额外资源。 如果您可以在比特流中嵌入数字,注册INIT或LUT RAM,那么检测SPI设备中需要更改以便能够克隆它的内容将更加困难。 这会使您的制造流程复杂化,因此可能不实用。 ------您是否尝试在Google中输入问题? 如果没有,你应该在发布之前。太多结果? 尝试添加网站:www.xilinx.com 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 I didn't realise that you had so many parts. My concern about your approach is that the a reasonable hacker would notice that the device made an access to read the serial number and then another access to read another section of memory that had the same number. From those two items it would be easy to break. Putting the number through some scrambling/hash/encryption with more than 32 bits of data read might be a reasonable step at the cost of additional resources needed in the FPGA. If you could embedded the number in bitstream, register INITs or LUT RAM, then it would be far harder to detect what was necessary to change in the SPI device to be able to clone it. This would complicate your manufacturing flow so it might not be practical. ------Have you tried typing your question into Google? If not you should before posting. Too many results? Try adding site:www.xilinx.com |
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我对你的方法的关注是一个合理的黑客会
请注意,设备可以访问以读取序列号 另一个访问读取具有相同的内存的另一部分 数。 从这两个项目中,它很容易打破。 这需要比简单克隆更多的努力和决心,你不觉得吗? 您必须将设计逆向工程到LUT级别才能实现这样的“破解”,对吧? 我承认我对盗版/克隆的当前技术水平并不了解。 放了 通过一些超过32位的加扰/散列/加密来编号 数据读取可能是一个合理的步骤,代价是额外的 FPGA中所需的资源。 实现起来既简单又便宜。 另一方面,如果小偷已经反向设计到LUT级别,这对于确定的小偷来说并不是一个障碍。 如果您可以在比特流中嵌入数字,请注册INIT或LUT RAM,那么检测更改所需的内容将更加困难 在SPI设备中能够克隆它。 这会使你的复杂化 制造流程因此可能不实用。 同意这两个方面。 感谢您抽出宝贵时间回复,mcgett。 - 鲍勃埃尔金德 签名:新手的自述文件在这里:http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369总结:1。 阅读手册或用户指南。 你读过手册了吗? 你能找到手册吗?2。 搜索论坛(并搜索网页)以寻找类似的主题。 不要在多个论坛上发布相同的问题。 不要在别人的主题上发布新主题或问题,开始新的主题!5。 学生:复制代码与学习设计不同.6“它不起作用”不是一个可以回答的问题。 提供有用的详细信息(请与网页,数据表链接).7。 您的代码中的评论不需要支付额外费用。 我没有支付论坛帖子的费用。 如果我写一篇好文章,那么我一无所获。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 My concern about your approach is that the a reasonable hacker would notice that the device made an access to read the serial number and then another access to read another section of memory that had the same number. From those two items it would be easy to break.That would require considerably more effort and determination than simple cloning, don't you think? You would have to reverse engineer the design to the LUT level to implement such a 'crack', right? I confess I'm not knowledgeable in the current state of the art for bootlegging/cloning. Putting the number through some scrambling/hash/encryption with more than 32 bits of data read might be a reasonable step at the cost of additional resources needed in the FPGA.This would be simple and cheap to implement. On the other hand, if a thief has already reverse engineered to the LUT level, this isn't much of a hurdle for the determined thief. If you could embedded the number in bitstream, register INITs or LUT RAM, then it would be far harder to detect what was necessary to change in the SPI device to be able to clone it. This would complicate your manufacturing flow so it might not be practical.Agreed on both counts. Thanks for taking the time to respond, mcgett. -- Bob Elkind SIGNATURE: README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369 Summary: 1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual? 2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics. 3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums. 4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread! 5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design. 6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please). 7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code. 8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing. |
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>这比简单的克隆需要更多的努力和决心,你不觉得吗?
是的,更多的努力,但只需要一个深度逻辑分析器。 >另一方面,如果一个小偷已经逆向设计到LUT级别...... 我正在考虑LUT级别的任何事情,因为如果他们对该级别的设计有所了解,那么最简单的操作就是禁用检查器。 我在考虑清楚地存储和传输的序列号,第一个来自SPI序列号读取,第二个来自存储位置。 关于SPI序列号没有任何可以解决的问题,但是在多次访问的幌子下隐藏后续访问将使得理解和破解变得更加困难。 ------您是否尝试在Google中输入问题? 如果没有,你应该在发布之前。太多结果? 尝试添加网站:www.xilinx.com 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 > That would require considerably more effort and determination than simple cloning, don't you think? Yes, more effort, but only the need woudl be a deep logic analyzer. >On the other hand, if a thief has already reverse engineered to the LUT level... I was thinking of anything at the LUT level, because if they have an understanding of the design at that level the simplest action is disable the checker. I was thinking of the serial numbers stored and transmitted in the clear, the first coming from the SPI serial number read and the second from your storage location. There isn't anything that can be down about the SPI serial number, but hiding the subsequent accesses under the guise of multiple accesses will make it harder to understand and crack. ------Have you tried typing your question into Google? If not you should before posting. Too many results? Try adding site:www.xilinx.com |
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MCGETT,
我理解并欣赏你所说的话。 你已经推动我考虑更简单的破解方案,缺乏LUT级逆向工程。 我对公开发表这些想法持谨慎态度,以免鼓励错误的人沉迷于邪恶的努力。 谢谢你的推动。 - 鲍勃埃尔金德 签名:新手的自述文件在这里:http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369总结:1。 阅读手册或用户指南。 你读过手册了吗? 你能找到手册吗?2。 搜索论坛(并搜索网页)以寻找类似的主题。 不要在多个论坛上发布相同的问题。 不要在别人的主题上发布新主题或问题,开始新的主题!5。 学生:复制代码与学习设计不同.6“它不起作用”不是一个可以回答的问题。 提供有用的详细信息(请与网页,数据表链接).7。 您的代码中的评论不需要支付额外费用。 我没有支付论坛帖子的费用。 如果我写一篇好文章,那么我一无所获。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Mcgett, I understand and appreciate what you are saying. You've nudged me to thinking of even simpler means for cracking the scheme, short of LUT-level reverse engineering. I'm leery of posting these ideas publicly, lest I encourage the wrong folks to indulge in sinister endeavours. Thanks for the nudges. - Bob Elkind SIGNATURE: README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369 Summary: 1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual? 2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics. 3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums. 4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread! 5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design. 6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please). 7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code. 8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing. |
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