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您好,我还有另一个PNA-X噪声系数问题。
我们通常在75F附近进行PNA-X噪声系数校准和测量。 我们最近在实验室中出现了一些环境波动,因此我们测量的噪声系数为82F。 我们的黄金单位的噪声系数读数比我们通常得到的噪声系数低约0.2dB,尽管我们将DUT的温度板上的温度设置为相同的24.3C。 (使用标准接收器方法)我的问题是,根据校准环境温度的偏差,安捷伦是否对PNA-X噪声系数测量(标准或硬件噪声接收器类型)具有某种精度/变化规范。 这将有助于我的公司根据所需的不确定性规范决定允许多少可容忍的环境变化。 (即.05dB)。 另外,将风扇放在PNA-X周围是否有助于降低噪声系数测量的环境温度变化不确定性? rok编辑:rok于2014年7月25日下午2:20更正Celsius Fahrenheit指示符 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Hello, I have yet another PNA-X noise figure question. We normally performed a PNA-X noise figure calibration and measurement around 75F. We recently had some environmental fluctuations in our lab, such that we were measuring noise figure at 82F. The noise figure readings for our Golden Unit were about 0.2dB lower than what we normally get, even though we are setting the temperature on a temperature plate for the DUT at the same 24.3C. (using standard receivers method) My question is whether Agilent has some sort of accuracy/variation spec for the PNA-X noise figure measurement (for both standard or hardware noise receiver type), based on deviation from calibrated environmental temperature. That would help my company decide how much tolerable environmental variation is allowable based on a desired uncertainty spec. (i.e. .05dB). Also, would placing fans around the PNA-X help in reducing the environmental temperature variation uncertainty on the noise figure measurement? rok Edited by: rok on Jul 25, 2014 2:20 PM to correct Celsius Fahrenheit designators |
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> {quote:title = rok写道:} {quote}>你好,>>我还有另一个PNA-X噪声系数问题。
>>我们通常在75C左右进行PNA-X噪声系数校准和测量。 我们最近在实验室中出现了一些环境波动,因此我们在82C时测量噪声系数。 也许在这里你的意思是75F和82F>我们的黄金单位的噪声系数读数比我们通常得到的低约0.2dB,即使我们将DUT的温度板上的温度设置在相同的24.3C。 (使用标准接收器方法)我的问题是,根据校准环境温度的偏差,安捷伦是否对PNA-X噪声系数测量(标准或硬件噪声接收器类型)具有某种精度/变化规范。 这将有助于我的公司根据所需的不确定性规范决定允许多少可容忍的环境变化。 (即.05dB)。 另外,将风扇放在PNA-X周围是否有助于降低噪声系数测量的环境温度变化不确定性? >>首先,基于功率传感器精度等,噪声不确定性最佳情况大约为0.15 dB。但典型的重复性小于0.1 dB。 我将不得不检查噪声系数不确定度计算器,但我认为它可能包括校准温度和测量温度。 噪声系数包括两部分:噪声功率测量和S21增益测量。 根据频率和型号,S21增益的规格为每摄氏度0.01到0.03 dB。 噪声接收器漂移类似。 由于定向冷却可能偶尔***作员阻挡,风扇可能会增加弊大于利。 由于噪声系数取决于“冷噪声”温度,实际上是50欧姆电阻的噪声,因此测试端口温度的7度变化会导致NF的变化约为0.1 dB(这是一种 从仪器到DUT平面的电缆的综合平均温度)。 如果使用矢量噪声校正,使用Ecal,Ecal I保持在31 C,因此标量负载(使用PNA内部的负载作为冷源负载)的变化不会那么多。 由于负载温度误差,7°F变化约为3.5°C变化将是约0.05的测量噪声系数变化。 这没有考虑到分析仪漂移(S21为0.035 dB,噪音功率大致相同)。 但也许最大的变化是测试端口电缆的损耗和延迟也会随着温度的影响而变化。 我的经验是电缆性能的变化在所有其他来源中占主导地位。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 > {quote:title=rok wrote:}{quote} > Hello, > > I have yet another PNA-X noise figure question. > > We normally performed a PNA-X noise figure calibration and measurement around 75C. We recently had some environmental fluctuations in our lab, such that we were measuring noise figure at 82C. Maybe here you mean 75F and 82F >The noise figure readings for our Golden Unit were about 0.2dB lower than what we normally get, even though we are setting the temperature on a temperature plate for the DUT at the same 24.3C. (using standard receivers method) My question is whether Agilent has some sort of accuracy/variation spec for the PNA-X noise figure measurement (for both standard or hardware noise receiver type), based on deviation from calibrated environmental temperature. That would help my company decide how much tolerable environmental variation is allowable based on a desired uncertainty spec. (i.e. .05dB). Also, would placing fans around the PNA-X help in reducing the environmental temperature variation uncertainty on the noise figure measurement? > > rok First, noise uncertainty best case is on the order of 0.15 dB based on power sensor accuracy, etc, etc. But typical repeatability is less than 0.1 dB. I'll have to check the noise figure uncertainty calculator, but I think it might include both calibration temperature and measurement temperature. Noise figure includes two pieces: noise power measurement and S21 gain measurement. The spec on S21 gain is on the order of 0.01 to 0.03 dB per deg C depending on freq and model. The noise receiver drift is similar. Fans would probably add more harm than good as directed cooling might get blocked occasionally by an operator. Since the noise figure depends upon a "cold noise" temperature, which is effectively the noise of a 50 ohm resistor, you would see about 0.1 dB change in NF for a 7 deg change in the test port temperature (this is a kind-of integrated average temperature of the cable from the instrument to the DUT plane). If you use Vector Noise Correction, with an Ecal, the Ecal I maintained at 31 C so it will not have as much variation a scalar load (which uses the load inside the PNA as the cold-source load). 7 degrees F change is about 3.5 C change would be about 0.05 change in measured noise figure due only to load temperature error. This doesn't take into account analyzer drift (0.035 dB for S21, about the same for Noise power I guess). But perhaps the biggest change is the test port cables loss and delay will also change with temperature effect. My experience is change in cable performance dominates all other sources. |
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脑洞大赛9 发表于 2018-12-17 07:37 嗨Joel博士,感谢您的详细解释以及发现温度指示器中的错误! 我们有一些长紫色戈尔测试电缆,因此可能是大多数环境变化来自的地方。 我想知道您是否会从基于环境因子的噪声分析仪中看到这种类型的变化。 谢谢,rok 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Hi Dr Joel, Thanks for the detailed explanation and for spotting the error in the temperature designators! We have somewhat long purple Gore test cables, so that may be where most of the environmental variation is coming from. I'm wondering whether you will see this type of variation from your environmental y-factor based noise analyzers as well or not. Thanks, rok |
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嗨Joel博士,感谢您的详细解释以及发现温度指示器中的错误!
我们有一些长紫色戈尔测试电缆,因此可能是大多数环境变化来自的地方。 我想知道您是否会从基于y因子的噪声分析仪中看到这种类型的环境变化。 谢谢,rok 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Hi Dr Joel, Thanks for the detailed explanation and for spotting the error in the temperature designators! We have somewhat long purple Gore test cables, so that may be where most of the environmental variation is coming from. I'm wondering whether you will see this type of environmental variation from your y-factor based noise analyzers as well or not. Thanks, rok |
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