转子和定子磁通BLDC电机之间的角度

这是纯粹的数学，你可以做任何事情：你每60度换向。因此你的转子必须在下一个合击步骤之前移动60度。= = & Gt；如果你从转子位置换向90度，转子将从90移动到30（！）在下一个换向步骤之前，你可能想要最大扭矩为90度角，在下一个步骤之前，你的转子更可能从120度移动到60度。你明白了吗？P.S.：不要试图对极对咆哮。我们区分“电机角度”和“电角度”RESP。电机转数“与”电革命“-电角度0…360考虑单极。因此，N极对，电机革命等于N电革命。迷惑？



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    It's pure math and you can do nothing against:

• You're commutating every 60 degrees.
  
• Thus your rotor has to move by 60 degrees prior the next comutation step.
  
• ==> if you commutate 90 degrees from the rotor position, the rotor will move from 90 to 30 (!) degrees prior the next commutation step.
  
• As you might want to have the max. torque at a 90 degrees angle, it is more likely that your rotor moves from 120 to 60 degrees prior the next step.
  

Do you get the math ?
 
P.S.: Don't try to rant about pole pairs. We differentiate between "motor angle" and "electrical angle" resp. "motor revolutions" vs. "electrical revolutions" - the electrical angle going 0..360 considering a single pole.
Thus having n pole pairs, a motor revolution equals n electrical revolutions. Confusing?

是的，我想用图片解释，但不能做附件。但我还有两个关键问题。1。而不是切换90度定子磁通的组合，如果I电源相位，使得定子矢量是150度的转子，如A-，B+，COFF。影响是什么？2。我的主要目标是获得最大速度，所以我想尝试相位超前。请确认我的概念是否在正常情况下纠正，如果发生60度霍尔转变，我应该立即切换定子磁链。但在相位提前的情况下，我应该能够在60度霍尔转变之前切换定子磁通。我对此是正确的吗？请帮帮我。我真的很困惑。



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    Yes partially i want to explain using picture but unable to do attachment. But i have two more critical questions.
1. Instead of switching the combination of 90 degrees stator flux if i power the phases such that the stator vector is 150 degrees from rotor like A-,B+,Coff. What is the impact?
2. My main aim is to get maximum speed so i want to try phase advance. Can you please confirm if my concept is correct
In normal cases if a 60 degrees hall transition happens i should switch the stator flux immediately. But in case of phase advance i should be able to switch the stator flux before the 60 degrees hall transition. Am i correct in this?
Please help me. I am really confused.

很抱歉，因为这是“大炮”的要求，通常你需要定子中的最大电流从转子磁极达到90度，以获得最大转矩。另一方面，这个方案与反电动势相一致，这意味着RPMS的实现是有限的。GHER RPMS（在较低的扭矩），可以应用“相位超前”（或“弱场”）方案。P相提前不能超过30度。因此，你的正常方案是启动120度的线圈，从转子极处停止60度。最大相位超前的结果是通电150。90度。在任何情况下，你必须检查你的大厅是否正在切换正确的时刻。事实上，这些都具有安装公差以及一些滞后现象。因此，提供一些霍尔传感器位置误差校准是很好的（一个学期！）.



      以下为原文

    Sorry for the late response, but this required by "big gun".

• Usually you will want the max. current in the stator to be 90 degrees from the rotor pole to get max. torque.
  On the other hand, this scheme is in phase with the Back EMF - meaning that the rpms achievable are somewhat limited.
  
• To achieve higher rpms (at lower torque), the "phase advance" (or "field weakening") scheme can be applied. P Phase advance cannot exceed 30 degrees. Thus your normal scheme would be to start energizing a coil at 120 degrees, stopping at 60 degrees from the rotor pole. Max. phase advance then results in energizing 150 ..90 degrees.
  

In any case you have to check whether your halls are switching the right instant. As it is, these have mounting tolerances as well as some hysteresis. Thus it is good to provide for some hall sensor position error calibration (what a term!).

非常感谢你的回复。我急切地等待着一些答复。如果我做正弦驱动会进一步提高速度吗？我有很多问题。对不起，请问这里有聊天设施吗？



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    Thank you very much for the reply. I was eagerly waiting for some reply. If i do sinusoidal driving will it further increase the speed? I have lot of questions. Sorry to ask but any chat facility available here?

关于正弦控制：这是关于扭矩波动比最大的RPMS更多。理论上，控制方案是最好的，如果它使你的转子的磁模式（可能是梯形或正弦）。那么理论-现实是很少理想的：如果你驱动你的转子外部。LY（最好用一些刷直流电机），你可以通过一个范围来检查所产生的电压是“更正弦波”还是“更梯形”。BTW：网络上有很多材料——使用谷歌，也许从某个大学找讲稿（不坏：美国应用科学）。再实用的方法。业余爱好者的内容是不太有利的，因为他们倾向于分配一个混合的“半知识”-甚至更糟-“信仰”。过去我支持过一些项目，甚至“专业人员”往往会遇到磁场（你看不到）和难以测量的电压（由于快速变化的参考电位）。



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    No chat AFAIK.
Regarding sine control: this is more about torque ripple than about max. rpms.
Theoretically the control scheme is best if it mathes your rotor's magnetic pattern (which might be trapezoidal or sinusoidal).
So much about theory - reality is rarely ideal: if you drive your rotor externally (best with some brushed DC motor), you can check by means of a scope whether the generated voltage looks "more sinusoidal" or "more trapezoidal".
 
BTW: there's a lot of materials on the web - use google and maybe look for lecture papers from some university (not bad: u. of applied science - the more practical approach). Hobbyist contents are less favorable as they tend to distribute a mix of "semi-knowledge" and - even worse - "belief". I supported some projects in the past and even "professionals" tend to have problems with magnetic fields (you cannot see) and voltages you can hardly measure (due to fast-changing reference potentials).
 
Have some fun with that - there's a lot to learn ☺

最后，我可以知道如何附加文件。这是我用来解释的一个图表，下面是Link KHTPS://E2E.T.COM/BugsS/B/MooDRIVECONTROUNG/SCORVE/2013/12/20/GANATET-You-Out-Tabel-Tab-Po.2SO用于阶段推进，这是我需要做的吗？通电150。90度“HH-HB HC相1 1 0 A+B+COFF（这是从X轴150度）0 0 1 A -BOFF C+1 0 1 1 AOF B-C+1 0 0 A+B-CFO1αA+BOFF C-0A AOB+C-I一直在努力得到这个答案。如果我做得对，请帮帮我。非常感谢你。



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    Finally i could know how to attach files

 
This is one of the diagram i am using to interpret easily and following is the link
https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/motordrivecontrol/archive/2013/12/20/generate-your-own-commutation-table-part-2
 
So for Phase Advance is this want i need to do?                
"Energizing 150 .. 90 degrees"
 
Ha    Hb   Hc                   Phases
1      1    0                     A- B+ Coff (this is 150 degrees from the x axis )
0      0     1                    A- Boff C+
1      0     1                    Aoff B- C+
1      0     0                    A+ B- Coff
1     1      0                    A+ Boff C-
0     1      0                    Aoff B+ C-   
 
I have been trying hard to get the answer for this. Please help me if i am doing correctly. Thank you very much in advance.
 
 
 
 
 

好的-在结尾的漂亮图案似乎有许多打字：每一个瞬间2个阶段被连接（一个到另一个，一个到另一个）。这些评论似乎是好的-表不是。也许这有助于：HTTPS://Time/Tim.com／C.SE无刷直流电机SPASE前进很简单-原则上：代替霍尔传感器切换时，你只需做30度之前，因为你不能真正预测未来（我也不能），“以前”是不行的。因此，在传感器转换后30度。这需要角度外推。考虑到负载是恒定的，角度外推并不困难。所以你可以推断出30—60度相位超前-“正常相位”。



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    OK - the nice pattern at the end seems to have a number of typos: every instant 2 phases are connected (one to plus, one to minus. The comments seem to be ok - the table isn't).
Maybe this one helps: https://training.ti.com/c...se-brushless-dc-motors
 
Phase advance is simple - in principle: instead of switching when the hall sensor switches, you simply do it 30 degrees before  
As you cannot really predict the future (I cannot too), "before" is no-go. So do it 30 degrees after the prior sensor switched. This requires angle extrapolation. Given the load is somehow constant, angular extrapolation is not that difficult. So you can go for extrapolating 30 - 60 degrees - phase advance - "normal phase".

我有很多问题，但我会问这个问题，这样我就可以有时间再学习。希望你能帮助我。我真的很困惑这个陈述，让我们说，霍尔状态是H1，H2，H3，H4，H5，H6和PWM开关状态是S1，S2，S3，S4，S5，S6-正常开关没有相位超前将切换CH1H-GT；S1，H2--Gt；S2，H3--Gt；S3，H4-和G4；H5 -Gt；S5，H6-和S6正常切换Pha。Se AdvaseEi将切换下一个状态，如H11-&，S2，H2---gt；S3，H3--- &，S4，H4--- -G5；S5，H5--- &，S6，H6--- & S1。这是我必须做的吗？或者我完全误解了。请帮忙。



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I have lot of questions but i will ask this one question, so that i can get some time to study again. Hope you will help me. I am really confused with this statement

Let us say the Hall states are H1, H2, H3, H4, H5, H6 and PWM switching states are S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6
Normal Switching WithOut Phase Advance
I will switch
H1 --> S1,
H2 --> S2,
H3 --> S3,
H4 --> S4,
H5 --> S5,
H6 --> S6
Normal switching with Phase Advance
I will switch the next state like
H1 ---> S2,
H2 ---> S3,
H3 ---> S4,
H4 ---> S5,
H5 ---> S6,
H6 ---> S1.
This is what i have to do? Or I completely misunderstood. Please help.

你误会了——有点。原理：你通常只有3个霍尔传感器。当传感器被磁极驱动时，每个“电圆”都会得到2个激活（这是指一个只有2个极的转子）。因此，每个霍尔传感器每60个信号就得到一个信号。最大相位提前30度。因此，在适当的情况下，你将无法得到一些霍尔传感器的信号。换相方案（“6步方案”）是恒定的，无论相位提前是否有效。这只是阶段提前导致通勤提前到下一步。



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    You misunderstood it - a bit. The rationale:

• You've usually got only 3 hall sensors.
  
• As the sensors are actuated by the poles, you'll get 2 activations each per "electrical round" (which refers to a rotor with only 2 poles).
  
• Thus you get a signal from one of the hall sensors every 60 degrees.
  
• Max. phase advance is 30 degrees. Thus you will not get a signal from some hall sensor where appropriate.
  
• The commutation scheme ("6 step scheme") is constant - independent whether phase advance is active or not. It's only that phase advance results in commuting earlier to the next step.
  

非常感谢你的帮助。我看到大约2000的速度从2500转到4300转，但不多。只需要确认我正在执行的逻辑。1。每60度，我将得到一个状态变化使用输入捕获中断。用3个霍尔态构成逻辑变量状态。EX：霍尔A—0厅B—0厅C—1。这相当于状态S1.2。根据机器的当前速度启动计时器。让我们说速度的周期是t0（1／f0）。定时器值将为T0／2.3。一旦计时器值到期，呼叫状态S2。（这是60度的中间，因此应该是30度）4。因此，对于每一个状态转换（所有霍尔转换）启动计时器，一旦它过期，调用状态。请帮忙。



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    Thank you very much for the help. I see some improvement in speed of around 2000 from 2500 to 4300 rpm but not much. Just need confirmation of the logic i am implementing.
 
1. Every 60 degree i will get a state change using the input capture interrupt. With the 3 hall states form the logic variable state.
Ex: Hall A - 0 Hall B - 0 Hall C - 1. This corresponds to state say S1.
 
2. Start the timer based on the current speed of the machine. Let us say the period of the speed is T0 (1/f0). The timer value will be T0/2.
3. Once the Timer Value expires Call State S2. (This is middle of 60 degree hence it should be 30 degrees.)
4. Hence for every State transition (All Hall transitions) start the timer and once it expires call the state. 
 
Am I correct in this? Please help.
 
 
 
 

老实说，你的RPM从2500增加到4300？？？？这超出了我最初的期望！你期待什么？如果你看过魔术KV数字：有一个“魔法”数量的“RPMS每伏特”（电源电压），不能超过（一些刷直流电机）。场推进（削弱）是一个窍门，以部分规避这个神奇的限制，但你不能欺骗物理或魔术。“你肯定得不到超过3平方根的一些因素，大约是1.73.43/2500是这个数值的圆圈。如果你需要更高的RPMS，你必须增加电机的工作电压。你的逻辑的描述似乎是有意义的。当你达到了我所能达到的目标时，我确信你是正确的（否则，马达可能会比你所达到的更低的RPM运行（非常）热，或者发出“奇怪”的声音）似乎一切都很好…



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    Honestly - you get an increase from 2500 to 4300 rpms ??? This is a bit beyond my first expectations!
 
What do you expect ? If you've ever seen the magic kV numbers:
there is a "magic" number of "rpms per Volt" (supply voltage) that cannot be exceeded (for some brushed DC motor).
Field advance (weakening) is a trick to partly circumvent this magic limit, but you cannot cheat physics or do magic.
Just from the "gut instinct", you certainly cannot get some factor beyond the square root of 3 - which is about 1.73.
4300/2500 is roundabout this value. If you need higher rpms, you'll have to increase the motor's operating voltage.
 
The description of your logic seems to make sense. And as you've reached what's reachable I'm quite sure you got it right (Otherwise the motor might run (very) hot at lower rpms than you achieved or emit "strange" sounds.)
 
Seems everything is fine ...

非常感谢你的回复。我的老板告诉我这台机器能升到8000。不知道该怎么办。所以我怀疑如果基本速度本身没有达到最大值。请你给我确认一件事。在我所看到的所有文件中，对于开关定子PWM，它们使用的是大约20kHz的开关频率。但我是通过给予永久高或低，一种100%的责任。它对速度有什么影响吗？



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    Thank you very much for the reply. My boss tells me the machine is capable of going up to 8000. Not sure what to do. So I am suspecting if the base speed itself is not reaching maximum. Can you please confirm me one thing. In all the documentation i have seen that for switching the stator pwms they are using switching frequency of around 20khz. But i am driving by giving permanent high or low, a kind of 100% duty. Does it have any impact on speed?

8000？这是一个“标准商业”机器，有一个数据表可以检查吗？还是一些实验性的东西？这有点困难，但即使老板也会犯错。另一方面：你能把供应量提高到目前使用的两倍吗？如果控制端能够承受，这就是当前RPM的两倍所需。至于电流：OH -尼斯，一些PWM方案实际上降低了负载所看到的视在电压。因此-虽然可能浪费一点能量-你当前的100%“占空比”可以达到最高RPMS。注：当应用PWM时，只使用上侧晶体管。低侧晶体管最好是100%Ω。



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    8000 ? Is this some "standard commercial" machine with a datasheet one could check? Or something 'experimental'?
 
It's a bit difficult, but even bosses can get it wrong 

你能给我一些测试案例，让我知道我的最大速度吗？我犯的错误在哪里？我很抱歉问这些问题没有太多的信息。我的意思是说，你可以建议我一些评估硬件板与软件，以便我可以连接到R，Y，B终端，并看到最大的速度。



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    Can you suggest me some test cases from which i can know my maximum speed? Where is the mistake i am doing? I am sorry for asking such questions without much information.
I mean to say can you suggest me some evaluation hardware board with software so that i can connect to R, Y, B terminals and see the maximum speed.

这是一个要求太多：我甚至不知道你当前的电压，既不是电机类型或KV值-我怎么能评估你的价值是否合理？测试用例？人们可能会想到把电动机和一些基本发电机连接在一起，并带有可变的负载。这样一来，就可以检查负载消耗的功率与所绘制的额外功率。预期效率超过80%，这将允许粗略的评估，一切似乎都很好。除此之外：？？？？



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    This is asking for a bit too much: I do not even know your current voltage, neither the motor type or the kV value - - - how could I be able to assess whether your values are reasonable or not?
 
Test cases? One might think of coupling the motor with some basic generator with a variable load. Thus one would be able to check the power consumed by the load vs. the additional power drawn. Expecting efficiencies beyond 80 % this would allow for a coarse assessment that everything seems to be fine. Beyond that: ???

如果我有一个转子，一个电磁铁，而不是一个永久磁铁。我能控制磁通量在两个方向和大小，因此任何机会增加速度，通过某种方式改变转子磁场。



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    If i have a rotor an electro magnet instead of a permanent magnet. Can i control the magnetic flux in both direction and magnitude and hence any chance of increasing the speed by somehow varying the rotor field.

好的-如果你有电励磁转子，就不需要场推进/弱化。惊喜！如果你在转子中有一个电磁铁，控制定子“在通常点”，并简单地减少转子电流，以实现更高的RPMS。根据电机类型，有一些关闭方案是明智的：有可能通过过高的RPM来破坏这些马达！



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    OK - if you've got some electrically excited rotor, there's no need for field advance/weakening. Surprise!
 
If you,ve got an electromagent in the rotor, control the stator "at the usual points" and simply reduce the rotor current to achieve higher rpms. Depending on the motor type it might be wise to have some shutoff scheme: there is some possibility to destroy these motors via too high rpms!