> {quote：title = Danhen 2014写道：} {quote}>我对Ecal校准，85070E软件和校准标准有一些疑问;
> * 3 - *在我的测量设置中，我有ECAL，ENA E5070,85070D探头，85070E软件和所有重要配件。
我怎样才能测量校正后的系数反射？
这些论坛上一个非常普遍的问题是人们没有提供足够的信息。
你提供的不仅仅是很多，但我认为还不够。
在这种情况下，*您测量ECAL，但没有提到什么型号或选项。
*你说“ENA E5070”，但据我所知，有一个A和B版本。
它也会有一些软件版本，对支持你的人有用。
*我查阅了* 85070E *探针上的手册，可以看到有各种选项。
我不知道D是否也是如此，如果是，你应该给他们。
*您尚未提供85070E软件的版本。
我经常想到自己做一个类似的探测，所以我真的会对探测结束的一些特写照片以及你对它的结构和短路的信息感兴趣。
我经常想到使用APC7作为探针。
可以用APC7校准套件校准，然后一个校准表面。
我认为人们需要移除夹头，测量内导体的衰退，并观察建模。
无论如何，这只是我的一些想法 - 没有足够的时间来探索我的所有想法。
但回到你在另一个线程中询问的关于校准标准的温度依赖性的问题，我认为短路或开路都不重要，这可能就是为什么85070E软件不允许你设置它们。
这是我的逻辑。
1）短路的目的可能是将平坦表面推向探头。
如果短路的温度很高，它会膨胀，但仍然会与探头接触。
所以我认为它根本没有任何区别。
电导率的变化理论上会产生一些影响，但我认为与其他误差源相比，它的影响可以忽略不计2）开路的目的是获得一些相位参考 - 我希望最佳值是相角180
远离短路的度数。
如果探头周围的空气温度发生变化，我相信对空气介电常数的影响会非常小，除非你做的事情就像使用液化空气一样。
使用普通的VNA和校准套件，手册说它应该在1摄氏度内校准和使用。我相信如果环境温度变化还有很多变化 - 所有电缆，半导体等的长度和直径。正如我所说，我
从来没有使用过这些，尽管我已经在很多期刊上读到了这种技术。
在测量人体乳腺组织的介电特性以进行癌症检测方面似乎有很多工作 - 在我看来，在医学物理学领域工作了数十年，完全浪费时间，尽管没有特别关注。
我认为你真的需要安捷伦员工的技术支持 - 不是像我这样感兴趣，但对此知之甚少的人。
我刚刚尝试运用我的工程背景来对所发生的事情进行有根据的猜测。
显然，加热空气或提高海拔高度会使每单位体积的分子比低空冷空气更少。
我觉得有点难以相信这种影响会非常显着。
Dave编辑：drkirkby于2014年7月23日下午1:09
以上来自于谷歌翻译
以下为原文
> {quote:title=Danhen 2014 wrote:}{quote}
> I've some questions about Ecal calibration, 85070E software and calibration standards;
> *3 -* In my measurement setup I have ECAL, ENA E5070, 85070D probe, 85070E software and all important acessories. How could I measure the corrected coeffecient reflection ?
A really common problem on these forums is people not providing sufficient information. You have provided more than many, but still insufficient in my opinion. In this instance,
* You measure ECAL, but no mention of what model or options.
* You say "ENA E5070", but as far as I can tell, there is an A and a B version of this. Also it is going to have some software version, which would be useful to someone supporting you.
* I looked up the manual on the *85070E* probe, and can see there are various options. I don't know if that is true of the D too, but if it is, you should give them.
* You have not given the version of the 85070E software.
I've often thought of making a similar probe myself, so I would really be interested in some close up photos of the end of the probe, and information you have about its structure, and the short.
I've often thought about the use of an APC7 as the probe. One could calibrate that with an APC7 cal kit, and then one has a calibrated surface. I think one would need to remove the collet, measure the recession of the inner conductor, and look at modelling that. Anyway, that is just some ideas I have - never enough time to explore all the ideas I have.
But going back to what you asked in another thread about the temperature dependance of the calibration standards, I don't think that of the short or open will matter at all, which is probably why the 85070E software does not allow you to set them. This is my logic.
1) The purpose of the short is likely to be to push a flat surface against the probe. If the temperature of the short is high, it will expand, but willl still be in contact with the probe. So I don't think it makes any difference at all. The change in electrical conductivity would theoretically have some effect, but I think its effect would be negligible compared to other source of error
2) The purpose of the open is to obtain some phase reference - I would expect the optimal value is a phase angle 180 degrees away from the short. If the temperature of the air around the probe changes, I believe the effect on the permittivity of the air would be incredibly small, unless you did things like use liquified air.
Using a normal VNA and calibration kit, the manuals say it should be calibrated and used within 1 deg C. I believe there is far more to change if ambient temperature changes - length and diameter of all cables, semiconductors etc.
As I say, I have never used ones of these, though I have read about the technique in a number of journals.
There seems a lot of working going into measuring the dielectric properties of human breast tissue for cancer detection - a complete waste of time in my opinion having spent decades working in the area of medical physics, although not specifically on that.
I think you really need technical support from Agilent staff here - not someone like myself who is interested, but has little knowledge of it. I've just tried to apply my engineering background to take educated guesses as to what would happen.
Clearly heating air, or raising altitude would give you less molecules per unit volume that cold air at low altitude. I find it a bit hard to believe the effects of that are going to be very significant.
Dave
Edited by: drkirkby on Jul 23, 2014 1:09 PM
> {quote：title = Danhen 2014写道：} {quote}>我对Ecal校准，85070E软件和校准标准有一些疑问;
> * 3 - *在我的测量设置中，我有ECAL，ENA E5070,85070D探头，85070E软件和所有重要配件。
我怎样才能测量校正后的系数反射？
这些论坛上一个非常普遍的问题是人们没有提供足够的信息。
你提供的不仅仅是很多，但我认为还不够。
在这种情况下，*您测量ECAL，但没有提到什么型号或选项。
*你说“ENA E5070”，但据我所知，有一个A和B版本。
它也会有一些软件版本，对支持你的人有用。
*我查阅了* 85070E *探针上的手册，可以看到有各种选项。
我不知道D是否也是如此，如果是，你应该给他们。
*您尚未提供85070E软件的版本。
我经常想到自己做一个类似的探测，所以我真的会对探测结束的一些特写照片以及你对它的结构和短路的信息感兴趣。
我经常想到使用APC7作为探针。
可以用APC7校准套件校准，然后一个校准表面。
我认为人们需要移除夹头，测量内导体的衰退，并观察建模。
无论如何，这只是我的一些想法 - 没有足够的时间来探索我的所有想法。
但回到你在另一个线程中询问的关于校准标准的温度依赖性的问题，我认为短路或开路都不重要，这可能就是为什么85070E软件不允许你设置它们。
这是我的逻辑。
1）短路的目的可能是将平坦表面推向探头。
如果短路的温度很高，它会膨胀，但仍然会与探头接触。
所以我认为它根本没有任何区别。
电导率的变化理论上会产生一些影响，但我认为与其他误差源相比，它的影响可以忽略不计2）开路的目的是获得一些相位参考 - 我希望最佳值是相角180
远离短路的度数。
如果探头周围的空气温度发生变化，我相信对空气介电常数的影响会非常小，除非你做的事情就像使用液化空气一样。
使用普通的VNA和校准套件，手册说它应该在1摄氏度内校准和使用。我相信如果环境温度变化还有很多变化 - 所有电缆，半导体等的长度和直径。正如我所说，我
从来没有使用过这些，尽管我已经在很多期刊上读到了这种技术。
在测量人体乳腺组织的介电特性以进行癌症检测方面似乎有很多工作 - 在我看来，在医学物理学领域工作了数十年，完全浪费时间，尽管没有特别关注。
我认为你真的需要安捷伦员工的技术支持 - 不是像我这样感兴趣，但对此知之甚少的人。
我刚刚尝试运用我的工程背景来对所发生的事情进行有根据的猜测。
显然，加热空气或提高海拔高度会使每单位体积的分子比低空冷空气更少。
我觉得有点难以相信这种影响会非常显着。
Dave编辑：drkirkby于2014年7月23日下午1:09
以上来自于谷歌翻译
以下为原文
> {quote:title=Danhen 2014 wrote:}{quote}
> I've some questions about Ecal calibration, 85070E software and calibration standards;
> *3 -* In my measurement setup I have ECAL, ENA E5070, 85070D probe, 85070E software and all important acessories. How could I measure the corrected coeffecient reflection ?
A really common problem on these forums is people not providing sufficient information. You have provided more than many, but still insufficient in my opinion. In this instance,
* You measure ECAL, but no mention of what model or options.
* You say "ENA E5070", but as far as I can tell, there is an A and a B version of this. Also it is going to have some software version, which would be useful to someone supporting you.
* I looked up the manual on the *85070E* probe, and can see there are various options. I don't know if that is true of the D too, but if it is, you should give them.
* You have not given the version of the 85070E software.
I've often thought of making a similar probe myself, so I would really be interested in some close up photos of the end of the probe, and information you have about its structure, and the short.
I've often thought about the use of an APC7 as the probe. One could calibrate that with an APC7 cal kit, and then one has a calibrated surface. I think one would need to remove the collet, measure the recession of the inner conductor, and look at modelling that. Anyway, that is just some ideas I have - never enough time to explore all the ideas I have.
But going back to what you asked in another thread about the temperature dependance of the calibration standards, I don't think that of the short or open will matter at all, which is probably why the 85070E software does not allow you to set them. This is my logic.
1) The purpose of the short is likely to be to push a flat surface against the probe. If the temperature of the short is high, it will expand, but willl still be in contact with the probe. So I don't think it makes any difference at all. The change in electrical conductivity would theoretically have some effect, but I think its effect would be negligible compared to other source of error
2) The purpose of the open is to obtain some phase reference - I would expect the optimal value is a phase angle 180 degrees away from the short. If the temperature of the air around the probe changes, I believe the effect on the permittivity of the air would be incredibly small, unless you did things like use liquified air.
Using a normal VNA and calibration kit, the manuals say it should be calibrated and used within 1 deg C. I believe there is far more to change if ambient temperature changes - length and diameter of all cables, semiconductors etc.
As I say, I have never used ones of these, though I have read about the technique in a number of journals.
There seems a lot of working going into measuring the dielectric properties of human breast tissue for cancer detection - a complete waste of time in my opinion having spent decades working in the area of medical physics, although not specifically on that.
I think you really need technical support from Agilent staff here - not someone like myself who is interested, but has little knowledge of it. I've just tried to apply my engineering background to take educated guesses as to what would happen.
Clearly heating air, or raising altitude would give you less molecules per unit volume that cold air at low altitude. I find it a bit hard to believe the effects of that are going to be very significant.
Dave
Edited by: drkirkby on Jul 23, 2014 1:09 PM
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