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我在计量实验室工作,我在滑动负载的验证/校准方面遇到了同样的问题。 我对计量学比较陌生,目前我正在努力掌握校准VNA机械校准套件的技术。 我想提出一种建立一些通过/失败标准的方法,该标准比85052B O& M手册中建议的过程要简单一些,该手册需要校准系统,执行系统验证,然后获得打印输出。 校准完成后的残留误差; 或者,使用航空公司,精确终止和时域门控直接测量方向性。 我遇到了各种滑动负载,主要是HP 911C / D / E和Maury 8035,以及来自同一制造商的N-Type,APC-7和2.4mm的滑动负载。 我将专注于3.5毫米滑动负载,因为我怀疑任何解决方案都显示出来(假设有一个解决方案)将适用于其他连接器类型的滑动负载。 我还注意到,安捷伦(HP)在早期的85052A校准套件中使用了Maury 8035系列滑动负载。 我见过一个带有911C负载的85052A套件。 大多数85052B套件似乎都使用911D / E滑动负载,尽管我也看到了一些Maury 8035系列滑动负载。 Maury在其套件中使用8037系列滑动负载。 我已经阅读了安捷伦AN 117-1(对于像我这样的人来说很棒的入门读物)以及_Sliding Load_,_Sliding load check_,_Sliding load calibration_和_Sliding Load Verification_ threads。 线程指出,每个制造商,尤其是Maury,滑动负载的规格是不同的。 安捷伦:911C(反射系数)可移动负载元件:48dB,与下面的85052B套件规格相冲突)85052A套件(1250-1891,回波损耗)滑动负载:> 42dB(仅限航空公司部分)(类似于Maury规范格式)85052B 套件(911D / E,回波损耗)滑动负载:> 44dB(校准后的剩余回波损耗)Maury 8035系列:终端元件(VSWR):1.090最大值,2 - 4 GHz(44dB Maury 8037系列:终端元件(VSWR): 1.090,2至4 GHz 1.05,4至34 GHz航空公司准确度(回波损耗):50 dB最小回波损耗(空气线路阻抗的等效回波损耗)滑动负载规范的格式不仅在制造商之间有所不同,而且在 制造商模型。来自'daveb'和'Dr_joel'的三个回应似乎提供了一个解决方案:davebRe:Sliding Load发表日期:2007年8月29日上午9:36“...在测量滑动载荷后进行校准后,您将看到反射系数 滑动负载元件。如前所述 因此,滑动负载元件大小的变化提供了校准质量的指示。“Dr_joelSliding Load发布日期:2007年8月30日1:22 PM取线性幅度差异(最差情况为0.002),然后 取20 * log10(.002)= - 54 dB。 因此,这表示滑动负载误差和方向性的组合最坏情况-54 dB(我们不能将两者分开)。 好cal。 Dr_joelSliding负载校准发布日期:2009年1月23日上午9:22“要真正测量滑动负载,您需要测量每个滑点的重新感知,然后计算差异(最差情况)以得出最小 - 最大vswr 的负荷。 不同之处在于负载的质量,因为它应该在每个滑点提供完全相同的伽玛。 它不会的唯一原因是传输线(航空公司)不是50欧姆。 回波损耗的实际值并没有显着影响滑动负载的误差。“我使用TRL套件(85052C)校准了我们的8510C并获取了911C滑动负载,两组911D / E滑动负载的数据 ,以及四组8035系列滑动负载。 如果我将'Dr_joel的表达式:20 * log10(反射系数)应用于每个测量频率的六个滑动位置的反射系数max-min差异,那么我将比较结果以确定正确的性能? 似乎我可以使用85052B套件44dB规格作为911D / E滑动负载的最低性能(在3GHz到26.5GHz之间只有一组911D / E超过44dB),但我不确定如何使用另一组 设备。 我是在正确的轨道上吗? 如果使用85052B套件中的44dB规格不是评估911D / E滑动负载性能的正确数量,我应该使用什么? 更一般地说,在评估我列出的任何滑动载荷时,什么会构成“良好校准”阈值? 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 I’m new to the forum, lots of good info here. I work in a metrology lab and I am having the same issues regarding verification/calibration of sliding loads. I’m relatively new to metrology and currently I am trying to master the art of calibrating VNA mechanical calibration kits. I’d like to come up with a method of establishing some Pass/Fail criteria that would be somewhat simpler than the process suggested in the 85052B O&M manual requiring calibrating a system, performing a system verification, and then getting a printout of the residual errors after a calibration has been performed; or, using an airline, precision termination, and time domain gating to measure directivity directly. I encounter a variety of sliding loads, predominantly HP 911C/D/E and Maury 8035’s in addition to sliding loads from the same manufacturers for N-Type, APC-7, and 2.4mm. I’ll focus on 3.5mm sliding loads as I suspect that whatever solution reveals itself (assuming there is a solution) will be applicable to the other connector style sliding loads. I’ve also noticed that Agilent (HP) used Maury 8035 series sliding loads in the early 85052A calibration kits. I’ve seen one 85052A kit with 911C loads. Most 85052B kits appear to use 911D/E sliding loads, although I have seen a few with Maury 8035 series sliding loads as well. Maury uses 8037 series sliding loads in their kits. I’ve read Agilent AN 117-1 (great primer for folks like me who are just getting into this) as well as the _Sliding Load_, _Sliding load check_, _Sliding load calibration_, and _Sliding Load Verification_ threads here. The threads point out that the specs for sliding loads are different for each manufacturer, in particular Maury. Agilent: 911C (Reflection Coefficient) Moveable Load Element: 48dB, which conflicts with the 85052B kit spec below) 85052A Kit (1250-1891, Return Loss) Sliding Load: >42dB (Airline portion only) (Similar to Maury specification format) 85052B Kit (911D/E, Return Loss) Sliding Load: >44dB (residual return loss after calibration) Maury 8035 series: Terminating Element (VSWR): 1.090 maximum, 2 — 4 GHz (44dB Maury 8037 series: Terminating Element (VSWR): 1.090, 2 to 4 GHz 1.05, 4 to 34 GHz Airline Accuracy (Return Loss): 50 dB min return loss (Equivalent return loss of air line impedance) The formats for the sliding load specifications are different not only between manufacturers, but also within manufacturer models. Three responses from ‘daveb’ and ‘Dr_joel’ appear to offer a solution: daveb Re: Sliding Load Posted: Aug 29, 2007 9:36 AM “…After calibration when measuring the sliding load, you will see the reflection coefficient of the sliding load element. As described previously, the variation in the magnitude of the sliding load element provides an indication of the quality of the calibration.” Dr_joel Sliding Load Posted: Aug 30, 2007 1:22 PM Take the difference in linear magnitude (worst case is 0.002), and then take 20*log10(.002)=-54 dB. So, this says that a combination of your sliding load error and your directivity is worst case -54 dB (we can't separate the two). Good cal. Dr_joel Sliding load calibration Posted: Jan 23, 2009 9:22 AM “To really measure a sliding load, you would need to meaure the relfection at each slide point, then compute the differences (worst case) to come up with the min-max vswr of the load. The difference is the quality of the load, since it should provide exactly the same gamma at each slide point. The only reason it won't is if the transmission line (airline) is not 50 ohms. The actual value of the return loss does not substantially contribute to the error of a sliding load.” I calibrated our 8510C using a TRL kit (85052C) and took data for a 911C set of sliding loads, two sets of 911D/E sliding loads, and four sets of 8035 series sliding loads. If I apply ‘Dr_joel’s expression: 20*log10(reflection coefficient) to the reflection coefficient max-min difference across the six slide positions for each measurement frequency, to what do I compare the result to establish proper performance? It appears that I can use the 85052B kit 44dB spec as the minimum performance for 911D/E sliding loads (Only one set of 911D/E’s exceed 44dB across 3GHz to 26.5GHz), but I’m not sure what to use for the other devices. Am I on the right track? If using the 44dB specification from the 85052B kit is not the correct quantity for evaluating the performance of the 911D/E sliding loads, what should I use? More generally, what would constitute a ‘good cal’ threshold when evaluating any of the sliding loads I listed? |
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我认为你是在正确的轨道,但在进行负载比较时,最坏的情况变化代表负载误差和方向性误差的总和。
如果使用相同的负载进行校准作为测量,则可以推断出负载比测量的差异优于6 dB。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 I think you are on the right track, but in making the load comparison, the worst case variation represents the sum of the load error and the directivity error. If the same load is used for calibration as measurement, you can infer that the load is 6 dB better than the measured differences. |
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脑洞大赛9 发表于 2019-8-13 11:29 感谢Dr_Joel的答复“......在进行负载比较时,最坏的情况变化表示负载误差和方向性误差的总和。” 是的,我从你之前的帖子中得到了另一个帖子(在我的原帖中引用)。 另外,我相信你在另一个帖子中指出,负载反射的实际值 - 幅度 - 与由五个(或六个)滑动位置产生的反射在史密斯上描述的圆的精度一样重要。 我假设圆的精度是衡量负载稳定性的标准吗? “如果将相同的负载用于校准作为测量,则可以推断出负载比测量的差异好6 dB。” 在我原来的帖子上扩展一下。 我正在尝试校准滑动负载套件(85050B,85052B,85054B,85056B和Maury等效产品)。 我的目标是找到一些方法来验证被测套件滑动负载的正确操作/功能,而无需对网络分析仪进行两次校准(节省了被测套件的校准时间)。 目前,为了验证滑动负载,我必须校准分析仪(我在此步骤中使用TRL套件),然后测量待测套件短路并打开以确定这些组件的偏移相位性能符合规范(这 过程将成为另一个线程的主题......),然后使用被测套件重新校准分析仪,最后根据分析仪规格检查分析仪的指向性能,以确定是否在 测试滑动负载正常运行。 在六个滑动位置采用最大最小反射系数以计算每个测量频率的回波损耗的过程似乎提供了可用于评估滑动负载性能的“品质因数”。 在另一个线程上的一个帖子中,给出了一些滑动负载数据,并且使用您的过程的结果是54dB回波损耗(组合方向性和负载误差),您附加了“good cal”。 这就是让我考虑使用你的过程来得出一个品质因数来与一些阈值通过/失败值进行比较的原因。 所以,我想在这一点上的问题是:“你用什么阈值来确定'好卡尔'?” 并且“低于54dB的什么值会引起反应'坏卡'?” 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Thanks for the reply Dr_Joel "...in making the load comparison, the worst case variation represents the sum of the load error and the directivity error." Yes, I got that from your earlier posts on another thread (quoted in my original post). Also, I believe that you indicated in another thread that the actual value - magnitude - of the load reflection was not as important as the accuracy of the circle described on a Smith by the reflections resulting from the five (or six) slide positiions. I assume the accuracy of the circle is a measure of load stability? "If the same load is used for calibration as measurement, you can infer that the load is 6 dB better than the measured differences." To expand a bit on my original post. I'm attempting to do calibration of sliding load kits (85050B, 85052B, 85054B, 85056B and the Maury equivalents). My goal is to discover some means to verify proper operation/function of the kit-under-test sliding load without having to perform two calibrations of the network analyzer (saving calibration time for the kit-under-test). Presently, to verify a sliding load, I have to calibrate the analyzer (I use a TRL kit for this step) and then meaure the kit-under-test shorts and opens to determine the offset phase performance of these components are in spec (this process will be the topic of another thread eventually...), then re-calibrate the analyzer using the kit-under-test and, finally, check the Directivity performance of the analyzer against the analyzer specification to determine if the kit-under-test sliding load is performing properly. Your process of taking the max-min reflection coefficient across the six slide positions to calculate the return loss at each measurement frequency appears to provide a "figure of merit" that could be used to evaluate the performance of the sliding load. In one of your posts on another thread, some sliding load data were given and the result using your process was 54dB return loss (combined directivity and load error) to which you appended "good cal". That is what got me thinking about using your process to arrive at a figure of merit for comparison to some threshhold pass/fail value. So, I guess the questions at this point are: "What threshhold did you use to make the determination 'good cal'?" and "What value below 54dB would have elicited the response 'bad cal'?" |
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张友芬1 发表于 2019-8-13 11:41 我早期描述的是负载稳定性(使用相同的滑动负载来测量自身。滑动负载的关键方面是作为滑动点轨迹的圆的中心是负载的阻碍。你可以做 TRL校准并找到圆圈然后计算中心并从中计算出负载线路部分的阻抗,这将代表有效的方向性。稳定性通常没有规格,但必须优于 负载的阻抗规格或者你无法达到阻抗规格。负载的制造商应该给出航空公司的阻抗或负载的残余方向性的规范。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 What I described early would be load stability (using the same sliding load to measure itself. The key aspect of a sliding load is that the center of the circle that is the locus of the slide points is the impedanc of the load. You can do a TRL calibration and the find the circles and then compute the center and from that compute the impedance of the line portion of the load and that will represent the effective directivity. The stability usually doesn't have a spec but it must be better than the impedance spec of the load or you cannot get to the impedance spec. The load's manufacturer should give a spec on the impedanc of the airline, or the residual directivity of the load. |
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脑洞大赛9 发表于 2019-8-13 11:50 感谢Dr_joel >>我早期描述的是负载稳定性(使用相同的滑动负载来测量自身。因此,这将使用被测试的套件校准系统,然后测量被测试的套件 所有六个位置的滑动负载回波损耗和比较结果,表示dB的差异?911D / E滑动负载O& M(00911-90019)规格负载稳定性包括连接器和航空公司。当部分85052B套件时,滑动 负载被指定为系统的残余方向性。没有其他负载我遇到规格负载稳定性。>>滑动负载的关键方面是圆的中心是滑点的轨迹 是负载的阻碍。您可以进行TRL校准并找到圆>>,然后计算中心,并从中计算负载线部分的阻抗,这将代表有效的方向性。哦,看起来像 我需要做一些研究,以了解如何做到这一点(我的vec 由于缺乏使用,数学是粗略的)。 是否有应用说明解决此问题? 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Thanks Dr_joel >>What I described early would be load stability (using the same sliding load to measure itself. So, that would be calibrating the system with the cal-kit-under-test and then measuring the cal-kit-under-test sliding load return loss at all six positions and comparing the results, expressing the difference in dB? The 911D/E sliding load O&M (00911-90019) specs load stability including connector and airline. When part of the 85052B kit, the sliding load is spec'd as residual directivity of the system. None of the other loads I've come across spec load stability. >>The key aspect of a sliding load is that the center of the circle that is the locus of the slide points is the impedanc of the load. You can do a TRL calibration and the find the circles >>and then compute the center and from that compute the impedance of the line portion of the load and that will represent the effective directivity. Oh, looks like I need to do some research to find out how to do this (my vector math is sketchy due to lack of use). Is there an App Note that addresses this? |
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脑洞大赛9 发表于 2019-8-13 11:50 谢谢Dr_joel。 在此线程的早期,'metatron'提供了一个电子表格,似乎在每个频率上对史密斯圆图进行“外心”计算。 它在每个圆的外心产生阻抗值。 鉴于电子表格计算和您对导出有效指向性的描述,我假设我需要做的就是使用以下表达式计算有效指向性:(计算阻抗-50)/(计算阻抗+50)并转换为dB? 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Thanks Dr_joel. Earlier in this thread 'metatron' supplied a spreadsheet that appears to do the 'circumcenter' calculations for the Smith Chart circles at each frequency. It yields an impedance value at the circumcenter of each circle. Given the spreadsheet calculations and your description of deriving the Effective Directivity, I assume then that all I need to do is calculate the Effective Directivity using the expression: (Calculated Impedance-50)/(Calculated Impedance+50) and convert to dB? |
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张友芬1 发表于 2019-8-13 12:15 对。 但这将提供相对于航空公司阻抗的方向性。 所以不确定性是航空公司的不确定性。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Yup. But this will give the directivity relative to the impedance of the airline. So the uncertainty is the uncertainty of the airline. |
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Dr_joel非常感谢你的帮助。 我有机会使用这些信息来表征来自Agilent / Hewlett Packard和Maury的几个滑动负载并获得了优异的结果。再次感谢! 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Dr_joel Thanks so much for your assistance. I've had a chance to characterize several sliding loads from Agilent/Hewlett Packard and Maury using this information with excellent results. Thanks again! |
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我不确定你到底在找什么,但我附上了一个电子表格,上面有一个如何电气验证滑动负载有效回波损耗的例子。
该计算针对一个测试点。 六次测量来自VNA的史密斯圆图格式,并在911E滑动载荷的六个位置进行。 我希望它有所帮助。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 I wasn't sure exactly what you were looking for but I attached a spreadsheet with an example of how to electrically verify a sliding load's effective return loss. This calculation is for one test point. The six measurements are from the VNA's Smith Chart format and were taken at the six positions of the 911E sliding load. I hope it helps. 附件 |
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Metatron(intertsing handle ...)我在回复Dr_Joel的回复时发布了我试图做的扩展描述。
这应该充实一般的想法。 我将不得不在电子表格上恳求无知。 使用了多少数量? (看起来Xi是回归损失,但对于Yi我是无能为力的)。 您对数据执行了哪些数学运算? 您如何比较结果以确定“通过/失败”? 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Metatron (interetsing handle...) I posted an expanded description of what I am attempting to do in my response to Dr_Joel's reply. That should flesh out the general idea. I'm going to have to plead ignorance regarding th spreadsheet. What quantities are being used? (Looks like Xi is return Loss, but for Yi I'm clueless). What math operation are you performing on the data? What do you compare the result to to determine 'pass/fail'? |
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我有一些时间来研究这个,看起来好像你的电子表格计算了由史密斯圆图上的点形成的6点多边形的外心,代表每个频率的六个滑动位置。
它是否正确? 如果是这样,我会有兴趣知道你在哪里找到方程式(或者,也许是你自己开发的方程式),这样我就可以更好地了解发生了什么。 我希望能够准确理解整个算法的每个部分正在做什么。 电子表格似乎工作得很好,似乎给出了我正在寻找的结果。 谢谢。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 I've had some time to research this and it looks as though your spreadsheet calculates the circumcenter of the 6-point polygons formed by the points on the Smith Chart representing the six slide positions for each frequency. Is this correct? If so, I would be interested in knowing where you found the equations (or, perhaps, you developed them yourself) so I can get a better idea of exactly what is going on. I'd like to be able to understand exactly what each piece of the overall algorithm is doing. The spreadsheet appears to work quite well and seems to give the results I am looking for. Thanks. |
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