U1733C LCR测量仪Q跳转

请告知哪个应用使用100kHz的电感？
或者哪个聪明的***谁告诉你这样做？



     以下为原文

  Please inform which application using inductors at 100kHz? 

Or which is the smart *** who told you to do that?

不确定他的具体应用是什么，但为了其他人阅读此线程的好处，许多制造商测试并指定此范围内的电感器（1 uH至100 uH和超过100 kHz）用于电源转换和开关电源，
通常在50和250 kHz之间运行。
示例：降压和升压转换器，噪声滤波器等。为什么您认为这种频率对于电感器来说是不寻常的？
即使在音频应用中，虽然低于20kHz的较低频率范围更受关注（例如扬声器交叉网络和滤波器），但是某人“可能”想要了解音频频谱及其以外的组件的频率响应特性。
然后，应用程序可能完全不同。
但考虑到安捷伦生产一系列精密LCR仪表（例如E4980A和E45980AL），这些仪表涵盖从DC到2 MHz的感兴趣的频谱，而U1733C则达到100 kHz。
我有一个并且发现它是一个方便的便携式装置，可以在各种频率下进行快速元件检查。



     以下为原文

  Not sure what his particular application is, but for the benefit of others reading this thread, many manufacturers test and specify inductors in this range (1 uH to 100 uH and beyond @ 100 kHz) for use in power conversion and switching power supplies, which typically operate between 50 and 250 kHz. Examples: Buck and boost converters, noise filters, etc. Why you think this frequency would be unusual for an inductor? Even in an audio application, while the lower frequency range below 20 kHz is more of interest (such a loudspeaker crossover networks and filters), someone "might" want to understand frequency response characteristics of components across the audio spectrum and beyond. Then again, the application may be entirely something else. But considering that Agilent makes a range of precision LCR meters (e.g. E4980A and E45980AL), these cover that spectrum of interest from DC to 2 MHz and the U1733C goes to 100 kHz. I have one and find it to be a handy portable unit for a quick component check at various frequencies.

为了其他人阅读这篇文章的好处，我会说使用LCR进行高质量测量只需要两个鳄鱼夹作为标准测试引线，这是不可能的。
关于U1733C，我已经对该仪表进行了检查，它在100kHz时出现问题，在完整的自校准周期后，它看起来无法将零点清零。
我虽然安捷伦会通过更新的固件处理它，但它们什么也没做，可能是因为这是设计限制而不是软件错误。
我最初的原因是，如果他对某个特定组件使用了错误的测试方法，我可以通过提供建议来节省开始这个主题的那一天。
对于U1733C价格范围内的仪表，我认为DE-5000便携式LCR在高达100kHz的所有设计中都更为成功。



     以下为原文

  For the benefit of others reading this thread, I will say that high quality measurements with an LCR which comes with just two alligator clips as standard test leads, is not possible. 

Regarding U1733C, I have review this meter and it has issues at 100kHz, it looks unable to zero-out up to the last digit after a complete self-calibration cycle.
I though that Agilent will deal with that by an updated firmware, but they did nothing, possibly because this is design limitation than software bug.

My original though was that I can possibly save the day of the one who started this topic, by offering an advice if he was using a wrong test method for a specific component.

And regarding meters at the price range of  U1733C, I would say that DE-5000 portable LCR is a much more successful over all design up to 100kHz.

嗯。
有趣的是100 kHz问题。
我必须看看我是否注意到那个频率有什么异常。
也就是说，我在固件修订历史中找到了一个有点神秘的参考资料，其中提到了一些关于改进100 kHz测量的信息，但这是几年前的事情 - 它可能与此线程上相同的100 kHz测量问题无关
。
有关参考，请参阅：http：//www.home.agilent.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/U173xC_release_note.txt，其中指出“改善100kHz，100kohm的阻抗测量”（从版本0.24开始）。
你还有U1733C吗？或者你还记得你测试的固件版本是什么？
我还需要检查我的版本以进行比较。
我的设备相对较新，因此固件可能更新。



     以下为原文

  Hmm. Interesting about the 100 kHz issue. I'll have to see if I notice anything unusual at that frequency. That said, I found a somewhat cryptic reference in the firmware revision history that says something about improved measurement at 100 kHz, but that was a couple of years ago -- and it may not be related to the same 100 kHz measurement issue on this thread. For reference, see: http://www.home.agilent.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/U173xC_release_note.txt where it states, "Improve impedance measurement at 100kHz, 100kohm" (from release 0.24 onward). 

Do you have a U1733C still or do you recall what version of firmware it was that you tested? I'll need to check my version to compare as well. My unit is relatively newer, so the firmware may be more current.

这个仪表是朋友的贷款，在我对DE5000的评论中提供了帮助。
http://www.itt***.eu/forum/index.php?topic=41.0没有进入固件版本，也没有直接联系安捷伦。
但我知道这是2012年5月至6月购买的新鲜股票。



     以下为原文

  The meter was a loan from a friend, as assistance in my review of DE5000.
 
http://www.itt***.eu/forum/index.php?topic=41.0

Did not get in to firmware revision, neither contacted directly Agilent about it. 
But I am aware that was fresh stock purchaged at May - June  2012.

.......编辑：Kiriakos GR于2014年2月23日凌晨3:20发表



     以下为原文

  .......

Edited by: Kiriakos GR on Feb 23, 2014 3:20 AM

最初的问题是问为什么在100 kHz时测量1 uH时Q值是否会跳跃？
为了使用现成的零件快速制造1 uH扼流圈，我需要将两根短铜线组合在一起，每条铜线并联一个铁氧体磁珠。
我使用那种旧的薄实心铜电话线，类似于＃24固体。
我将连接的两端扭曲在一起，将两半分开。
我得到了一个很好的实际读数1.11的东西，很好的平均，一切都很好。
我注意到Q值有点变化。
但是，Q值看起来不正确。
我拿出一个微欧姆表，测量了我的系列DC R的组合路径，大约3毫欧。
而答案就在于此。
如果我没记错的话，Q是2pifL / R.
期望这种美观的低成本仪器能够用两根引线处理3毫欧（这本身就是一种有些困难的测量）是完全不合理的。
并非总是如此，对于给定的精度，需要四根导线。
然而，在这种情况下，绝对需要4毫欧开尔文测量几毫欧的稳定且有意义的Q读数。
除了在这种情况下需要测量Q的毫欧之外，1 uH已经处于仪器工作范围的边缘。
1 uH在最低20 uH标度下低于10％底部刻度。
然而，U1733C完全没有问题，产生一个准确和稳定的1 uH L测量到100 kHz的3 1/2位左右。
几年前我用了10到30 mH的空心电感器，R系列的电压几欧姆到10欧姆以上，取得了巨大的成功。
我对U1733C的性能非常满意并强烈推荐它。
很明显，它不会与5美元+台式机与四线输入的性能相匹敌。
但是，对于许多实验室和现场测量，3 1/2位数足够好。



     以下为原文

  The initial question was asking why when measuring a 1 uH at 100 kHz does the Q value jump around?

To make a quick 1 uH choke using readily available parts, I needed to combine two short copper wires, each with a ferrite bead in parallel.  I used that old thin solid copper telephone wire, something like #24 solid.  I twisted the joined ends together and separated the two halves a bit.

I got a nice solid reading of 1.11 something uH, nice averaging, all is good.  I did notice the Q value was varying a bit.  However, the Q value did not look correct.

I got out a micro-ohmmeter and measured my series DC R for the combined paths at about 3 milliohms.  And, therein lies the answer.

If I recall correctly, Q is 2pifL/R.  It is simply not reasonable to expect this otherwise beautiful low cost instrument to be able to handle 3 milliohms with two leads (a somewhat difficult measurement in and of itself).  It is not always the case that, for a given accuracy, four wires are needed.  However, a 4 wire Kelvin measurement is absolutely needed by several milliohms for a stable and meaningful Q reading in this case.

Beyond needing to measure milliohms for Q in this instance, 1 uH is already at the edge of the instruments operating envelope.  1 uH is below 10% bottom scale on the lowest 20 uH scale.  Yet, the U1733C had no problem at all producing an accurate and stable 1 uH L measurement to 3 1/2 digits or so at 100 kHz.

I used it some years back for 10 to 30 mH air core inductors with series R on the order of a few ohms to less than 10 ohms with great success.  I am very pleased with the performance of the U1733C and highly recommend it.  Clearly, it will not match the performance of a $5k+ bench unit with four wire inputs.  However, for many lab and field measurements, 3 1/2 digits is plenty good enough.

当达到预期时，低ESR电容器是主要应用。
因此，在100kHz下具有稳定性问题的一个仪表，以及用户需要在低欧姆测量中添加40个计数的显示分辨率，对我来说并不是一件好事。
安捷伦需要重新设计此LCR模型，以便在所有支持的频率范围内成为稳固的表现者。



     以下为原文

  When it comes down to expectations, low ESR capacitors is the major application. 
Therefore one meter with stability issues at 100kHz, and with a display resolution which require from the user to add 40 counts in low ohm measurements, does not look as treasure to me.

Agilent needs to redesign this LCR model so to become a solid performer in all supported frequency ranges.

100 kHz时的稳定性问题是什么？
1 uH L读数稳固且正确。
从电气工程的角度来看，3毫欧系列R的Q读数毫无意义。
事实上，它并不是平均无意义的阅读。
没有什么可以解决的，Q读取对于这种情况是不可行的。



     以下为原文

  What is the stability issue at 100 kHz?  The 1 uH L reading was solid and correct.

The Q reading at 3 milliOhms series R makes no sense from an electrical engineering perspective.  In fact, it might be good that it does not average a nonsense reading.  There is nothing to fix, the Q reading is not workable for this scenario.