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大家早,
当我在Citrix和GRID的这次旅程中进入第二年时,我们在无数配置上运行了90名Autodesk员工。 我不得不说这款技术仍然是丰田普锐斯对Maclaren P1的看法。 我们花了大约460,000美元来实施解决方案,即使它有点工作,如果我再次选择,我会购买90个工作站,每个2200美元。 本可以节省25万美元,并且工作量会更小。 让我们看看为什么,我会请其他读者聆听他们的意见。 - 即使有鼠标循环和各种其他注册攻击,AutoCAD工作区也很难通过Citrix进行配置。 它仍然不准确,迟滞和痛苦。 - 网格不存在Citrix支持。 您必须在网上搜索各种博客,Twitter以获取更多更新,以及第三方工具来调整系统以使其可远程操作。 - NVidia网格支持 - 嗯,这是我可以从供应商和社交媒体中的一大堆营销资料中找到的 - 我们使用K2,这是我去年买的最好的。 K220不够强大,K240不会做得很好,K260是可用的,而完整的GPU是用户想要的体面绘图。 所以最多我可以把8个人放在35K美元的服务器上。 这是每位用户$ 8K。 - 该软件非常多。 现在我们的Win10图像将使用K240启动,但如果我改为更高的任何东西 - 我会连续重启。 - 不间断的补丁,我认为我们正在使用Xen服务器的补丁17,我们刚刚为GRID卡发布了一个积分版本,上面用K260杀死了一半的员工。 (K260可以在Windows 7上运行....) - 其他3D应用程序相当不错,SpaceGass,发明者,Navisworks和Revit似乎都比AutoCAD更好用。 但他们都需要2GB视频卡,这是260个配置文件。 - 管理很简单,因为您只需更新一个工作站映像,每次更新后都需要更新每台计算机上的个人虚拟磁盘 - 在完成此操作后,允许每台计算机停机半小时。 - 网络流量和带宽很奇怪。 我们运行局域网设置,一些虚拟机运行速度为60Mbit,每次运行约20分钟,其他运行速度为6左右.NFI为什么。 - 当你想要它时,电源管理和让VM打开和关闭有点受欢迎,DC有电源管理 - 但它不起作用,所以你必须使用shell。 - 别让我开始使用NVEnc和各种视频模式...... 实际上 - 我会在那里停下来,因为我开始听起来像个老生子。 从我的经验来看,我们的系统正在运行,但最终用户和IT团队都希望我们没有实现它。 虽然技术似乎很好,我们都可以制作一个看起来不错的演示,但运行工作站和服务器更简单,更便宜,同时使用DFS或PeerSync在站点之间组织数据。 主要的问题是,当你实现这一点时,你是独立的,Citrix支持人员不知道什么是GRID卡,而你正处于bug之后的bug之后。 我们从Citrix或GRID获得的每个新更新都可以解决一个问题,但接下来的几天您将解决新问题。 我有一个由5个人组成的团队都拥有Citrix Qualifications,我们只是累了,疲惫不堪,最后一个GRID驱动程序更新打破了260个配置文件迫使我写这个。 我们现在太深了,无法改变它 - 所以我们将继续尝试将其变为专业功能级别,也许M60卡更好,但我想再投入5万美元的视频卡只需一年 老??? 祝你一切顺利,感谢你们迄今为止的阅读。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Morning all, As I enter my 2nd year on this journey with Citrix and GRID, we run 90 Autodesk employees on a myriad of configurations. I have to say that this tech is still what the Toyota Prius is to a Maclaren P1. We have spent around $460,000 implementing the solution and even though it sort of works, if i had my choice again, i would have just bought 90 workstations @ $2200 each. Would have saved myself $250K and would have a smaller workload. Lets go through why and I would ask fellow readers to chirp in with their opinions. - AutoCAD workspace is very hard to configure over Citrix, even with mouse cycles and various other reg hacks. It is still inaccurate, laggy and a pain. - Citrix support is non-existent for grid. You have to trawl the web for various blogs, twitter for more updates and 3rd party tools to tune the system to make it remotely workable. - NVidia Grid Support - well, this is all i can find from the supplier ans a tonne of marketing stuff in social media - We use K2, it was the best i could buy last year. K220 is not powerful enough, K240 wont do 3D very well, K260 is usable and a full GPU is what the user wants for a decent drawing. So at best i can put 8 people on a $35K server. That is $8K per user. - The software is very buggy. Right now our Win10 image will boot with a K240, but if i change to anything higher - i get continuous reboots. - The incessant patching, i think we are on Patch 17 for Xen server and we just had a point release for the GRID cards, which as above killed half my workforce with the K260. (K260 works on Windows 7 though....) - The other 3D apps are quite good, SpaceGass, inventor, Navisworks and Revit all seem to be much better to use than AutoCAD. But they all need 2GB vid cards which is the 260 profile. - management is easy as you only have the one workstation image to update, you do need to update the personal vDisk on each machine after each update - allow half and hour of downtime for each machine whilst this is done. - Network traffic and bandwidth is just weird. We run a LAN setup and some VM run at 60Mbit for about 20 minutes at a time and others sit at around 6. NFI why. - Power management and getting VM's to switch on and off when you want them to is a bit of hit and miss, the DC have power management - but it doesn't work, so you have to use the shell. - Dont get me started on NVEnc and the various video modes... Actually - i will stop there as i am starting to sound like whingey old man. The takeaways from my experience is that, we have the system working, but both the end users and the IT team wish we hadn't implemented it. Whilst the tech seems good and we can all make a demo that looks good, it is simpler and cheaper just to run workstations and servers, whilst using DFS or PeerSync to organise the data between sites. The main problem is that you are on your own when you implement this, Citrix support has no idea what GRID cards are and you are on the bleeding edge working around bug after bug after bug. Every new update we get from Citrix or GRID may fix one issue, but the next few days you are working around new ones. I have a team of 5 guys all with Citrix Qualifications and we are just tired, worn out and the last GRID driver update that broke the 260 profile has forced me to write this. We are in too deep to change it back now - so we will continue to try and get this to a professional functional level, maybe the M60 cards are better, but do i want to throw another $50k at video cards that are only a year old ??? i wish you all the very best, thanks for reading this so far. |
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27个回答
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嗨Virge
您是否检查过nvidia-smi以确保在XenDesktop VM上使用NVENC(NVENC有助于减少延迟,因此很好知道它是否正常工作)? 显然,现在您正在使用XenApp,您需要一组不同的Citrix策略,因为NVENC无法在XenApp上运行,并且您依靠CPU来处理压缩。 上面提到过,您是否尝试过直接进入Storefront而不是使用Netscalers? 您是否尝试使用RDP连接到XenDesktop? 发生了什么? ... 你用什么来管理用户档案? UPM? 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Hi Virge Have you checked nvidia-smi to ensure NVENC is being used on the XenDesktop VMs (NVENC helps to reduce latency, so good to know if it's working or not)? Obviously, now that you're using XenApp, you need a different set of Citrix Policies because NVENC does not work on XenApp and you're relying on the CPU to handle the compression. Mentioned above, have you tried going to Storefront directly yet and not using the Netscalers? Have you tried connecting to a XenDesktop with RDP? What happened? ... What do you use to manage user profiles? UPM? |
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请你为我扩展一些东西请BJones ....
在你的一篇回复中,你提到AutoCAD是基于CPU而不是基于vGPU的.....我曾经为AutoCAD处理过的所有内容都表明你对Revit的回答是正确的,而不是像MEP& IDS。 我们使用MEP,IDS& Revit在这里,当我们第一次做CITRIX时,一切工作正常,但是MEP& IDS ......滞后是荒谬的。 (有K6000和GRID K2卡)。 当我努力解决这个问题时,我一直在讨论REVIT工作正常的事情,因为这主要是基于CPU的,并且不会像MEP那样严重依赖vGPU。 IDS的确如此。 谢谢 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Can you expand on something for me please BJones.... In one of your replies you mentioned that AutoCAD is CPU based NOT vGPU based ..... Everything I have ever dealt with for AutoCAD showed your answer to be true for Revit but not programs such as MEP & IDS. We use MEP, IDS & Revit here and when we first did CITRIX everything worked fine but MEP & IDS .... lag was ridiculous. (Had K6000 & GRID K2 cards). When I worked to troubleshoot this I kept running into things that suggested REVIT was working fine because that is mostly CPU based and doesn't rely heavily on the vGPU like MEP & IDS does. Thank You |
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嗨MFJ
当在本地工作站上正常工作的应用程序被移动到虚拟环境,远程访问然后开始行为不端时,只要虚拟环境规范和设计得恰当(我假设你的是?)并且没有过度使用 ,您要做的第一件事就是检查协议是否引入了该问题。 您可以通过使用不同的技术访问虚拟资源来实现此目的(通常RDP足以进行初始测试,只是为了查看症状是否仍然存在(尽管还有其他))。 另一种选择是访问机制,许多Citrix环境的人使用Netscaler,但是Netscalers通常配置一次用于远程访问,然后从未针对特定工作流进行优化。 或者,Netscaler VPX将位于服务器上,该服务器具有不适合和/或不足和/或过度争用的资源。 更改访问方法是缩小导致问题的另一个好方法。 系统中可能存在许多瓶颈,具体取决于其规格,体系结构和利用率,瓶颈通常表现为最终用户的延迟。 您甚至可以改变专业级组件的用户外围设备,而不是许多公司似乎使用的廉价垃圾(键盘和鼠标(我在本文前面提到的那些)),因为这些也经常被忽视 。 如果你有MEP& IDS在一个经过适当设计的规范平台上,如上所述,我会查看协议和访问方法,看看会发生什么。 问候 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Hi MFJ When applications that are working normally on a local workstation are moved to a virtual environment, accessed remotely and then start mi***ehaving, as long as the virtual environment is spec'd and designed appropriately (I'm assuming yours is?) and not over utilized, one of the first things you want to do is check whether the protocol is introducing the issue. You can do this by accessing the virtual resource using a different technology (typically RDP will suffice for an initial test just to see if the symptoms persist (although there are others)). Another option is the access mechanism, a lot of folks with Citrix environments use Netscaler, however Netscalers are typically configured once for remote access and then never optimized for the specific workflow. Or a Netscaler VPX will sit on a server with unsuitable and / or insufficient and / or over-contended resources. Changing your access method is another good way to narrow down what is causing the issue. There can be numerous bottlenecks in the system depending on it's specification, architecture and utilization, and a bottleneck will typically manifest itself as latency to the end user. You could even go as far as changing the user peripherals for professional grade components, rather than the cheap rubbish that so many companies seem to use (keyboard and mouse (I mentioned those earlier in this post too)) as these are also often over looked. If you have MEP & IDS on an appropriately designed, spec'd platform, as mentioned, I'd check out the protocol and access methods and see what happens. Regards |
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使用AutoCAD快速解决所有问题
加载工厂3D并启动示例项目 - 它是一堆管道和stoarge坦克。 进入完整的3D模型...... 我们在此图纸上放大和缩小时间为2-3秒。 我们在使用轨道时也会立即进入线框。 最后 - 在2012R2上使用XENApp运行AutoCAD时,我们遇到了很多崩溃。 每天3-4。 我们不会在Win7上的XENDEsktop上崩溃 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Quick Question for you all out there with AutoCAD Load up plant 3D and crank up the sample project - it is a bunch of pipes and stoarge tanks. go into the full 3d model... We get a 2-3 second lag on zooming in and out on this drawing. We also go immediately to wireframe when using orbit. Lastly - when running AutoCAD with XENApp on 2012R2, we get a LOT of crashes. 3-4 a day. We dont get this crashing on XENDEsktop on Win7 |
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最新更新 - 我们拥有最多的工作系统......我们现在唯一的杀手是3D和孵化。
孵化在Citrix平台上造成延迟。 任何人都知道我们可以“重绘”或使用不同的绘图协议来缓解鼠标滞后的方式吗? 3D仍然很糟糕 - 真的不能使用植物3d,我们现在在本地机器上尝试这个,看看它是否更好。 孵化在本地机器上很好。 似乎“交叉影线”是一个很大的杀手。 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Latest update - we have a working system with most... the only killer we have now is 3D and Hatching. Hatching is causing no end of lag on the Citrix platform. Anyone know of a way we can "redraw" or use a different drawing protocol to alleviate the mouse lag with Hatching ? 3D is still awful - cant really use plant 3d, we are trying this on local machines now to see if it is any better. Hatching is fine on a local machine. and it seems to be that "cross hatching" is a big killer. |
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嗨Virge
我打算在我的系统上尝试这个,看看我是否有同样的症状,我现在只是获得2017版本...... 但这并不理想,因为我的连接路线,我距离我的硬件大约800英里,并通过互联网访问它。 当我玩游戏时,我会回复。 让我们看看发生了什么 ... 问候 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Hi Virge I'm going to try this on my system and see if I get the same symptoms, I'm just obtaining the 2017 version now ... It's not ideal though, because of the way my connection routes, I'm approx 800 miles away from my hardware and accessing it over the internet. I'll post back when I've had a play. Let's see what happens ... Regards |
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所以我有一个快速的玩法,我似乎没有你上面提到的那种滞后。
现在,如前所述,我不是CAD用户,我知道这些团队在延迟和交互方面有多敏感,所以我不会说它是完美的。 我拍摄了2张截图(附件),两者都以2560 x 1600的分辨率运行。 AutoCAD 2017 Plant 3D - 1.jpg 在这个距离,我在1个陷波鼠标滚轮滚动后屏幕更新前的延迟时间不到1秒,我进一步缩小,它增加了更多的更新延迟。 AutoCAD 2017 Plant 3D - 2.jpg 在这个距离和更近的距离之后,我在1槽口鼠标滚轮滚动后没有延迟。 我不知道如何应用孵化或轨道(我已经去了,但它只是试图分析一切,我显然做错了什么),但是当我启用线框和放大和缩小时,我不知道 似乎有任何问题。 由于我对AutoCAD的工作知识有限,除非我有一步一步的指示,否则这是我能做的最好的事情。 通常情况下,我显然会让CAD用户这样做,我只会解决他们遇到的问题。 而不是我尝试使用他们的应用程序。 问候 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 So I've had a quick play with it, and I don't appear to have the kind of lag you mention above. Now, as said previously, I'm not a CAD user, and I know how sensitive these teams are when it comes to latency and interaction, so I'm not going to say it's perfect. I've taken 2 screenshots (attached) both running at 2560 x 1600 resolution. AutoCAD 2017 Plant 3D - 1.jpg At this distance, I have just under 1 second of latency before the screen updates after a 1 notch mouse wheel scroll, the further I zoom out, it adds a little more update latency. AutoCAD 2017 Plant 3D - 2.jpg At this distance and anything closer, I have no latency after a 1 notch mouse wheel scroll. I don't know how to apply Hatching or Orbit (I've had a go, but it just tries to analyze everything, I'm obviously doing something wrong), but when I enable wireframe and zoom in and out, I don't seem to have any issues. With my limited working knowledge of AutoCAD, that's the best I can do unless I have step by step instructions. Typically I'd obviously let a CAD user do this, and I'll just fix what they have issues with. rather than me try to use their application. Regards |
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出于兴趣,我想我也会尝试使用线框4K,完全诚实,有一点压缩伪像。
我可能会把它调出来,但我只是想使用与上面相同的政策。 响应时间与2560 x 1600相同。 问候 以上来自于谷歌翻译 以下为原文 Just out of interest, I thought I'd also try it at 4K with wireframe, being completely honest, there is a little bit of compression artifacting. I could probably tune it out, but I just wanted to use the same policies as above. Response times are the same as 2560 x 1600. Regards |
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