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[问答]

播放1080p剪辑和视频M10是否足够好?

大家好。
我是论坛的新成员,很高兴认识你们
我在论坛上有一个问题或需要一些先进个人的建议。
因此,在我的工作中,我们增加了2个esxi以扩展VDI的使用。
我们已经有70个用户使用VDI(销售部门),他们使用瘦客户端(地平线7)和PCoIP零客户端。
我们计划在我们投入使用的两个Esxi上增加大约100个用户。但是,这是在生产部门工作的用户的时间
这些新用户不会进行繁重的编辑工作,但更多的是用于查看已编辑的视频文件和剪辑。
我们计划用极端爆炸(地平线7.1)分发瘦客户机
我的问题是为了让他们能够轻松地轻松查看和播放1080p剪辑和视频,M10是否足够好?
我们现在正在用K2进行测试,显然我的同事似乎很满意。
我想知道花几乎两倍于M60的钱值得吗?
顺便说一下,在这100名用户中,他们中的一半甚至可能不会同时观看剪辑。
如果有人能给我一个建议,我会非常恭维。
TLDR;
- 增加100个VDI用户进行工作
- 其中一半将经常观看1080p视频
-  M10是否可以轻松实现平滑和播放
谢谢。

以上来自于谷歌翻译


以下为原文

Hi all.

I am a new member on the forum, nice to meet you guys

I have a question or needing a few advice from advanced individuals on the forum.

So, at my work, we are adding in 2 more esxi in order to expand the use of VDI.
We already have 70 users who use VDI (sales department) who use a thinclient (horizon 7) and PCoIP zero client.

We are planning to add in around 100 more users on the two Esxi we are putting in. But this, time it's for users who work in the production department

These new users won't be doing heavyload editing work but it's more for reviewing edited video files and clips.
We are planning to hand out the thin client with blast extreme (horizon 7.1)

My question was in order for them to view and playback 1080p clips and videos smoothly and with ease, will a M10 be good enough? We are testing with K2 right now and apparently my co workers seems to be happy with it. I wanted to know if spending almost double the money for M60 was worth it? By the way out of the 100 users, maybe not even half of them will be actually watching clips simultaneously.

If anyone could give me an advise, i would appreicate it very much.
TLDR;
- adding 100 more VDI users for work
- half of them will be viewing 1080p videos often
- will a M10 do the job as of smoothness and playback ease

Thank you.

回帖(14)

曾盼丽

2018-9-20 11:51:32
你好
欢迎来到论坛!
潜水海峡....你将使用Blast Extreme,这意味着你将使用NVEnc。
NVenc至少需要1GB vGPU配置文件。
基于此,每个M10将支持32x用户的最大值,因此每台服务器需要2x M10才能应对这一数量的用户。
您要添加的2x新服务器,它们的规格是什么?
内存?
中央处理器?
(CPU型号和生成(v3 / v4))
您将提供哪种Windows操作系统?
我相信你知道,当你搬到Maxwell时,你会转向CCU许可模式,所以不要忘记考虑到你的成本。
根据可用信息,您可能希望购买vPC许可证。
你的问题:
问 -  M60的价值是K2的两倍吗?
A  - 使用M60,您可以获得更高的性能并将帧缓冲区加倍(2x 8GB,而不是2x 4GB)。
因此,基于帧缓冲区分配,您可以在同一服务器机箱中获得两倍的用户数。
因此,对于K2s来支持与一对M60相同数量的用户,你现在需要购买2个额外的K2,再加上另外一个服务器,你需要机架空间来安装它,运行它的能力,支持和
维护服务器,另一个Hypervisor许可证,最后,空调容量来冷却它。
突然之间,价格上涨看起来并不那么糟糕;-)
例如,我有一些高性能客户,他们的数据中心空间有限(他们的机架中没有空间)。
因此,空间(用户密度)对他们来说是一个真正的优势,而且与扩展到另一个数据中心的成本相比,新GPU的价格上涨是微不足道的,而对于其中一些,甚至没有那个选择。
因此,在比较GPU成本时,尽量不要将其视为比较新旧的简单。
看看在给定的情况下支持“X”数量的用户需要多少费用,然后你会发现新GPU的真正价值。
无论购买的GPU是什么(就货币价值而言),每个GPU的实际价值将因客户的具体情况而异。
希望有所帮助
问候


以上来自于谷歌翻译


以下为原文

Hi

Welcome to the forum!

Diving strait in .... You’re going to use Blast Extreme, which means you’re going to use NVEnc. NVenc requires a minimum of a 1GB vGPU profile. Based on that, each M10 will support 32x user’s maximum, so you will need 2x M10s per server to cope with that amount of users.

The 2x new servers that you're adding, what specification are they? RAM? CPU? (CPU model number and generation (v3 / v4))

Which Windows Operating System are you going to be delivering?

As I’m sure you’re aware, when you move to Maxwell, you move to a CCU licensing model, so don’t forget to factor this in to your costs. With the information available, it’s looking like you will want to purchase vPC licenses.

Your question:

Q - Is the M60 worth double the amount of the K2?

A - With the M60, you get more performance and double the Frame Buffer (2x 8GB, instead of 2x 4GB). Therefore, based on Frame Buffer allocation, you can get twice the amount of users in the same server chassis. So, for K2s to support the same amount of users as a pair of M60s, you now need to purchase 2x additional K2s, plus another server to put them in, plus you need rack space to install it, power to run it, support and maintenance for the server, another Hypervisor license and lastly, Air Conditioning capacity to cool it. All of a sudden, that increase in price isn’t looking so bad ;-)

For example, I have a few high performance clients who are space limited in their datacentres (they physically have no space left in their racks). So space (user density) is a real premium to them, and the increased price of the newer GPUs is insignificant compared to what it would cost to scale into another datacentre, and for some of them, there isn’t even that option.

So when comparing GPU costs, try not to look at it as simplistically as comparing old to new. Look at what it costs to support "X" amount of users in a given set of circumstances, then you’ll find the true value of the newer GPUs. And regardless of what the GPUs are purchased for (in terms of a monetary value), the real value of each GPU will vary per customer depending on their circumstances.

Hope that helps

Regards

Ben
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朱梁贡

2018-9-20 11:59:37
谢谢你的快速反应!
我们仍处于服务器和我们将向用户分发哪种硬件的决定阶段。
但至于操作系统,我认为我们将在瘦客户端上使用Windows 10(也许是i5)
说实话,我们甚至不知道我们要部署的用户的确切数量,但是大约在50到100之间。
我已经了解了你关于M60的理论,但由于这个项目的唯一目的是让用户查看编辑过的剪辑和视频,而不是实际编辑它们,M10会更合适吗?
部分用户将使用它进行视频查看,而其他人则将其用于normla任务(桌面应用程序等)
我们只使用我们能够从其他地方借用的K2进行测试,我们正试图投入更新的GPU,因此我们决定使用M10或M60,我的理解是M10在中等水平上更加用户密度友好
1080p解码/编码和视频观看目的,而M60则相反。
此外,什么类型的集成GPU适合在瘦客户端解码1080p文件?
我很遗憾因为我不久前被安排在项目团队中,因为我缺乏知识,而且我2周前才开始研究和搜索这个计算机领域。
再次感谢Bjones,我想听到更多,如果这个论坛上的其他任何人都可以给我任何对我来说意义不大的东西!

以上来自于谷歌翻译


以下为原文

Thank you for the quick responce!

We are still in the deciding phase of what server and what kind of hardware we are going to hand out to the user.
But as to OS i think we will be deplying Windows 10 on the thinclients (maybe i5)

To be really honest with you, we dont even know the exact number of users we are going to be deploying to but its around 50 to 100 mark.

I understoon your theory about M60, but since the sole purpose of this project is to let the users view edited clips and videos, not actually editing them, will a M10 be more suitable? Since partial users will be using it for video viewding purpose and others will be using it for normla tasks (deskwork apps etc)

We are only testing it with the K2 that we were able to borrow from elsewhere, we are trying to put in a newer GPU hence we are deciding on an M10 or the M60, my understanding is that M10 is more user density friendly with mid level 1080p decode/encode and video viewing purpose, where as the M60 is the opposite.

Also, what type of integrated GPU will be suitable in order to decode the 1080p file on the thinclient side?

I am sorry for my lack of knowledge since i was put on the team of the project not so long ago and i only started to study and search about this area of computers 2 weeks ago.

Once again thanks Bjones and i would like to hear more and if anyone else on this forum can give me anything that would mean alot to me!
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qwe041

2018-9-20 12:11:03
如果您将Windows 10作为VM OS提供,那么您需要不超过1GB的FrameBuffer
由于您的用户数和密度与您的vGPU配置文件直接相关,因此您需要准确计算您计划移动到系统的用户数。
否则,您将要么低估一切,这意味着您将需要购买更多的单个服务器,因为它们不是一个足够的规范,或者您将过度规范它们,并浪费资源。
你需要对你的数字更准确,而不仅仅是说“大约50到100”。
另外,您的其他基础设施呢?
您是否考虑过额外的存储I / O和网络带宽?
...当添加50-100个使用视频的用户时,您需要考虑所有资源。
这不是一个理论,它是一个事实:-)不要看单个组件价格,看看整个系统的成本。
可以共享相同资源的用户越多,整个系统的成本效率就越高,这也是我们虚拟化的主要原因之一(以及NVIDIA GRID甚至存在的整体原因!);
最终,为了获得更好的资源利用率,因为它总体上比为用户提供他们自己的专用硬件更便宜。
它不仅仅与物理服务器有关;
机架空间,电源,冷却,许可,支持,维护,升级,更新等等都需要花钱。
服务器密度越高,系统实施和支持的成本效率就越高。
你没有要求M10和M60之间的性能比较,你问M60是否值得K2的购买价格的两倍,答案是,(更详细一点)它比单位购买更多
价钱。
M60显然比M10更强大,但是M10的密度表现更好。
基于FrameBuffer,M60将比M10支持少50%的用户。
您可以在此处了解计划添加到系统的用户数量,以便进行适当的规范和设计。
假设您总共有64个用户(在“约50  -  100”范围内):
如果每个服务器最多有32个用户,我会说为每个服务器购买2个M60,并为每个服务器提供1GB的vGPU配置文件。
原因在于,M60拥有比M10更多的H.264流(36对28),并且当您计划提供视频时,这是一个重要的考虑因素。
如果您想在系统上添加更多用户,您现在需要考虑我上面提到的有关成本与价值的因素。
您现在需要购买额外的服务器资源以支持额外的用户密度。
此外,如果服务器上的用户较少,则需要较少的CPU和RAM来支持它们;
这是可用于抵消额外服务器资源以支持更多用户的资金。
假设您有超过65个用户(超过M60s FrameBuffer容量和2台服务器):
对于具有1GB vGPU配置文件的每台服务器超过32个用户,您将需要使用M10。
M10将完成这项工作,但如果同一服务器上的所有用户同时开始观看视频,您可能会开始降低性能。
请记住,一旦用户连接,您就无法在主机之间对VM进行负载平衡(但是您可以在今年/明年之后进行...)。
此外,您的服务器密度将取决于您尚未提及的CPU和RAM规格。
尽管如此,如果您只有2个新服务器并且想要支持超过64个用户,那么每个服务器中的一对M10是您唯一的选择,因为M60只是没有FrameBuffer容量来支持超过64个
用户。
您需要具有H.264解码功能的瘦客户端。
通常,具有SOC(片上系统)或专用GPU的东西将具有该功能。
“Raspberry Pi”将是最便宜的选择,然后你会有很多不同的选择。
英特尔NUC制造出极佳的瘦客户机,有很多不同的型号可供选择,如果你不需要最新和最强大的,它们也很便宜。
瘦客户端仍然是系统中非常重要的一部分。
由于用户体验不佳,瘦客户机选择可能会破坏设计完美的后端系统,因此请确保您测试各种供应商品牌/型号并正确验证它们。
并且不要低估将视频流式传输到可接受级别所需的内容。
正如我最近在这里发布的其他人所提到的,我个人认为流媒体视频是最难做的事情之一,因为它需要随时提供近乎完美的视觉效果和音频。
观看视频的人立即可以看到视觉质量或帧速率的任何下降,其​​中使用Outlook或键入文档的人可能不会注意到视觉或音频质量的下降。
问候


以上来自于谷歌翻译


以下为原文


If you're delivering Windows 10 as your VM OS, then you need nothing less than 1GB of FrameBuffer



As your user count and density are directly tied to your vGPU profiles, you do need an accurate count of how many users you plan to move on to the system. Otherwise, you will either under-spec everything, meaning that you will need to purchase more individual servers as they won't be a sufficient specification, or you will over spec them, and have wasted resources. You do need to be more accurate with your numbers than just saying "around 50 to 100". Also, what about the rest of your infrastructure? Have you considered the additional storage I/O and network bandwidth? ... when adding 50 - 100 users who are working with video, you need to consider all resources.



It's not a theory, it's a fact :-) Don't look at individual component prices, look at the cost of the whole system. The more users that can share the same resource, the more cost effective the entire system becomes, and that's one of the main reasons we virtualise (and the ENTIRE reason that NVIDIA GRID even exists!); to get better resource utilisation, ultimately, because it ends up being cheaper overall than giving users their own dedicated hardware. It's not just about the physical server; Rack Space, Power, Cooling, Licensing, Support, Maintenance, Upgrades, Updates etc etc. It all costs money.

The higher the server density, the more cost effective the system is to implement and support.



You didn't ask for a performance comparison between the M10 and M60, you asked whether the M60 was worth twice the purchase price of a K2, to which the answer was, (in a little more detail) there's more to it than unit purchase price. The M60 is obviously more powerful than the M10, however the M10 trades performance for density. Based on FrameBuffer, the M60 will support 50% less users than the M10. This is where you need to know how many users you plan to add to the system, so you can spec and design appropriately.

Let's say you have 64 users total (that falls within the "around 50 - 100" bracket):

If you have up to 32 users per server, I would say buy 2x M60s for each server and give them a 1GB vGPU profile each. The reason for that, is that the M60 has more H.264 streams than the M10 (36 vs 28), and as you plan to deliver video, this is an important consideration. If you want to add more users on to the system, you now need to factor in what I mentioned above about cost vs value. You now need to purchase additional server resource to support the additional user density. Also, if you have less users on a server, you need less CPU and RAM to support them; this is money that could be used to offset additional server resource to support more users.

Let's say you have 65+ users total (that exceeds the M60s FrameBuffer capacity with 2 servers):

For more than 32 users per server with a 1GB vGPU profile, you will need to use the M10. The M10 will do the job, however if all users on the same server start viewing videos at the same time, you may well start to suffer reduced performance. Remembering that once users are connected, you can't load balance VMs between hosts (however you will be able to later this year / next year ...).

Also, your server density will depend on your CPU and RAM specifications, which you haven't mentioned yet.

With all of that said, if you only have 2x new servers and want to support more than 64 users, a pair of M10s in each server is your only option, as the M60s simply don't have the FrameBuffer capacity to support more than 64 users.



You need a Thin Client that has H.264 decode capability. Typically something with a SOC (System on Chip) or dedicated GPU will have that capability. A "Raspberry Pi" will be the cheapest option, then you're in to many different choices. Intel NUCs make great Thin Clients, and there are a lot of different models to choose from and if you don't need the latest and most powerful, they are also pretty cheap as well. The Thin Client is still a very important part of the system. Poor Thin Client choice can destroy a perfectly designed back end system due to the user experience, so make sure you test various vendor brands / models and validate them properly. And don't underestimate what's required to stream a video to an acceptable level. As I've mentioned to someone else who posted on here recently, I personally think streaming videos is one of the hardest things to do, as it requires near perfect visuals and audio at all times. Any drops in visual quality or frame rate are immediately visible to the person viewing the video, where as someone using Outlook or typing a document, may not notice a drop in visual or audio quality.


Regards

Ben
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张丽

2018-9-20 12:29:49
我读到M10最多可以支持每卡64个,每个服务器128个。
在与我的同事交谈之后,我们发现我们正在部署的用户数量将超过60且低于70.正如您在下面提到的,2xM10将是我们关于此项目的唯一选择。
至于其他资源,有其他人在这些部门工作,似乎我们有一个去,加上我们使用相当重负载的Netapp存储,以便存储,我认为我们没事。
对不起!
我的英语不是最好的,并使用“理论”听起来很酷我想大声笑,我完全同意你所说的成本和价值。
我想这一切都取决于他们让我们用这个项目多少钱。
但就成本和价值而言,就像你再次说过的那样,M10胜出可能因为M60x2只能支持64位用户。
我再一次为错误信息道歉,Althoguht我说一个瘦客户端,我们试图部署的硬件是笔记本类型(thinkpad),我已经读过,为了让瘦客户端解码h.264文件,它需要集成
Haswell的地平线5.x以及之后的GPU?
所以说,如果我们为了我们的议程目的而得到一个thinkpad,那么skylake i5会像上面提到的那样浪费资源吗?
此外,我们将使用Win10 IOT版或任何嵌入在thinkpad中的Windows ...哦,一旦我们决定在服务器上,我一定会发布系统规格!
再次非常感谢你的回复,希望很快得到你的回复
问候
kaeon

以上来自于谷歌翻译


以下为原文


I read that M10 can support up to 64 per card, 128 per server. After talking to my co-workers it turns out the number of users we are deploying will be more than 60 and less than 70. So as you mentioned below, 2xM10 will be our only choice regarding this project. As far as other resources, there is other people working on those department and it seems we have a go, plus we are using a pretty heavyload Netapp storage so as to storage goes i think we are ok.


Sorry man! My english isnt the best and used "theory" to sound cool i guess lol, I completely agreee with what you said about cost and value. I guess it all depeneds on how much money they gunna let us use for this project. But so far as to cost and value, like you said once again, M10 wins out maybe since M60x2 can only support 64 users.



Once again i apologize for the misinformation, Althoguht i said a thinclient, the hardware we are trying to deploy is the notebook type (thinkpad) and i have read that in order for the thinclient to decode the h.264 files it would need a integrated GPU above Haswell for horizon 5.x and onwards? So by saying that, if we were to get a thinkpad for the purpose of our agenda, will skylake i5 will be a wasted resource like you mentionded above? Also we will be using Win10 IOT edition or whatever on a Windows embedded inside the thinkpad... Oh and once we have decided on the server, i will sure to post the system spec!

Once again thank you so much man for replying and hope to get a reply from you soon


Regards

kaeon
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